Episode 61 - Transcript - Anxiety and Breathwork with Amber

By Michael Rhodes | March 23, 2022

This is a transcription of Episode 61.  The transcription was done by software, apologies for anything that seems out of whack.  A link to the episode is below.

Michael –

Hello, and welcome to the show. This is episode 61. Before we get to the episode, I want to cover one thing. I was holding a contest a couple of weeks ago in the divorce men’s network facebook group page, which, by the way that that group is now completely private, it can’t be found by the public, we’ve had some issues in the divorce support for men Facebook group of people getting in there that didn’t belong. And so the divorce men’s network Facebook group is completely closed off to the public. And if you want to get into it, you need to go through a verification process and you can reach out to me. In order to figure out how to get verified You can reach me at Rising Phoenix podcast 20 twenty@gmail.com or Michael at divorce Desmond’s dash network.com. So, we were holding a contest in there, and I think it was episode 58 I was choosing a city at random that had shown up as listened to that episode. And I chose Oxnard, California, randomly. If you are from Oxnard, please reach out to me, I believe you are in the divorced men’s network Facebook group. But I the data shows me someone from there. Someone from there is in there, but I can’t link up who that user is. So if that is you, please reach out. You will get your choice of a shirt hat or coffee mug. From the merch store. It can either be branded with the podcast or branded with the website divorcement. Network. So that’s, that’s that. This is episode 61. As I said, so this one is on breathwork I want to caution you the at the end of this episode, we do a five minute breathing exercise called circular breathing, which is Amber’s expertise. Unfortunately, I think I have to say this, don’t do that when you’re driving, or operating heavy machinery or anything that isn’t like sitting or laying your ass on a floor or a chair or somewhere. In order to do this. I did it. You’ll hear it and see it if you’re if you’re on YouTube. And it was intense, to say the least that I only did five minutes and I did it sitting down she recommend recommends lying down because you can you get kind of light headed sort of disoriented, it’s, it was intense, I definitely recommend you give it a shot. Coincidentally, today, the 23rd of March and 2022. Amber is offering a free class this evening. I don’t know the details as to how to get to that class. But if you’re hearing this today, the 23rd reached out to me at the two previously mentioned emails or if your Facebook friend or in a Facebook group, hit me up and I’ll get you all those details. I don’t have them currently. But someone dropped me a note. And I was told that Amber is going to be doing a free class tonight. So if you want to check it out, just just hit me up. So that’s it. That’s all I got. I just wanted to make sure that the winner of the contest got notified and is able to claim whatever prize they want. Here we go. Episode 61. Hey, so

Amber –
Hey, so thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. Yeah, so for me, a little bio background. When I was born, I wasn’t breathing. So for the first couple of minutes, I came into the world. I was without that, you know that much needed oxygen. So, so it’s kind of set me on a trajectory to kind of where I am today. It was a long, long path and journey and remembering all that. You know, it’s like one of those stories you’re told when you’re a kid like oh, when you were born, you weren’t breathing. You were blue, and we were all freaking out and you’re like, okay, it was a thing, but it really did kind of impact me very, very strongly throughout my life. Yeah, so I grew up in a household where my parents were kind of absentee. They’re not a drug real a lot of abandonment issues. From my parents, you know. My grandparents they did a very young mother, teenage mother. My parents both died in a car accident when I was 19. So it just was like a lot before I was 20. So I was carrying around all of this, you know, and it’s funny because like after not funny at all, but after the accident I have a meeting Get a cold, I was like I need to trapped all that stuff inside my body. And, um, you know, long, long story short, I went on I went to college, I got a master’s degree, you know, I had my kids are adults now. And management had 200 employees and I get all the things that you’re like, Oh, this is the trajectory that you’re supposed to go on as an adult. And I just felt like, empty still, you know, I didn’t feel like I was fulfilled, even though I did all the things that society says you’re supposed to do. And yeah, so I was having a lot of issues with digestive issues, you know, anxiety, I had stomach ulcers, I had, I would get hives like after a stressful meeting at work, I break out in these big hives. And I just realized, like this stress and anxiety, I have to find a good outlet for it, you know, so I, you know, I was started doing yoga and those kinds of things. And this class came up, I don’t even know how I found it. And it was, it was a Holotropic breathwork. It’s a different it’s a type of breath work. I had no idea what I was getting into, I thought we were gonna go sit like, oh, and meditate. I was like, Maybe that’ll be great for me. And instead, I like, had this mind blowing experience where I was like, wow, that like, I felt like I’ve moved some stuff. I felt like I weighed less afterwards, I like let go of a lot. It really kind of transformed my where I am today. It kind of set me on that path. So I started looking around, like, I need more of this. And I was looking around, I’m in Orlando. So who’s doing it? I couldn’t find anyone doing it. So I was like, You know what, like, the community needs this. People need this. And so I was like, let me add that to my yoga teacher training. went and got certified and circular trend. conscious breath work, and LA. And I’ve been doing now for a couple years, and I do big groups zooms one on ones couples. I’ve done festivals. Yeah, it’s been. It’s been life changing. For me, it really has like, allowing people to have that space and hold that space for them to, to experience this and just sit up afterwards and be like, Whoa, I feel something from that. And that was so powerful. And you know, to have people like, like Brian, who connected us say, that was so powerful for me. I want other people to experience this, which is what happened to me. I was like, telling all my friends. I’m like, you’ve got to try this. It’s so amazing. Yeah, so So that’s kind of my bio kind of how I got to where I am and why I love doing what I’m doing.

Michael –
yeah, it’s it’s an interesting story. It sounds like you had a pretty significant amount of trauma throughout your life. And I think one of the, one of the things you need to do to heal from that is fine, your thing and it’s clear that you lately wanted to talk about anxiety, and how you deal with that. And I think we mentioned maybe there’s a breathing exercise, perhaps we could talk about like if, like, maybe you feel a panic attack, panic attack coming on, or maybe you’re in the midst of one you talk a little bit about, what do you recommend during those moments?

Amber –
Yeah, so my favorite for those moments. And you can do this in the car. It’s not super psychedelic, like the circular breath. But it’s, it’s called for seven, eight breaths. So you breathe in for four, you hold for seven, and then you breathe out for eight. So you’re really switching into your parasympathetic nervous system. So after like five of these breaths, you’ll feel yourself drop into that relaxed state, it’s super easy to do, you can do it while you’re standing in line or while someone’s yelling at you. You can do this, you know, without anyone knowing that you’re doing it. And it is. It’s profound. So it’s really good. So yeah, in for four, hold for seven out for eight. So we could do a few rounds of that if you’d like to try it. Sure, why not? Yeah. All right, cool. So let’s close our eyes and just breathe normally. And then so when we start breathing, we’re going to breathe in. So you want to breathe in down into your belly. So sometimes it helps to put your hand on your belly and feel it rising. So you don’t want to breathe up into the top of your lungs. You want to breathe deep down into your belly. So we’re going to breathe in for for ready in. Hold and breathe out for a you want to let all the air slowly out of your lungs. Just feel it slowly escaping. And as you exhale, you’re imagining All the stress, whoever’s yelling at you to just blow away. And then we’re going to breathe back in 234 and hold and out 234567 and eight. Now you can just feel how your your senses have slowed a little you can tell immediately that even if you’re not stressed out, you’re like, Whoa, super chill.

Michael –
I think that the I don’t know what the exact mechanics of it but the pause really does it for me. I don’t know what yeah, it forces you to be like to pause yourself, you know what I mean?

Amber –
Exactly. Yeah, there’s, your body’s not doing anything, it doesn’t have to breathe, it doesn’t have to move. You can just like literally like, and you can, it’s almost like, especially if you put your hand on your belly, you can feel your heart beating in there, and you’re like, it connects you to your body so much. And I think that a lot of times when we’re anxious or depressed, we’re disconnected. Yeah, I’m disconnected.

Michael –
Totally agree with that. So let’s end guys bookmark this thing or fucking, I don’t know, maybe, maybe, maybe I should take this chunk out and send it out people that people ask me all the time, like you do do clips. No, I’m not. Gonna do that. But maybe this one should. So but let’s move on to circular breathing. I don’t know much about these. This is sort of your forte, right? This is Yeah. So let’s say my

Amber –
Yeah. So let’s say my favorite. Okay, so this is my, my most profound for me, this has been the one that has like, it, like kicks you in the butt, right? Right when you need it. So this is the kind of breath work when you’re like, Oh, I’m about to like punch a hole in a wall kind of thing, or I need to move some stuff. And those moments come up. And sometimes you’re like, I need to go in a room by myself. And fucking Breathe it out. Right. So the reason why we do this kind of breath where and what we’re going to do is we’re going to breathe through our mouth. So normally, you always want to breathe through your nose, your nose is your, your I’m having a brain fart, your filters. So you want to breathe through your nose, you got all your little filters in there, it moistens and warms the air as it enters your lungs. But for a few minutes breathing through your mouth is because it lets the oxygen in and out, it adjusts the pH of your body. So if you’re very acidic, if you drink a lot of sodas, or you eat a lot of red meat or anything like that, this can help to make you a little more alkaline, which is you know, acidity is where cancer lives, disease lives, ulcers, all those things are very acidic I, I have a long history of stomach ulcers. And so I have been able to I’m not saying that breathwork alone healed that also, it’s things that you eat and the amount of stress but this is something that can really help to process those things so that your stomach acid can be a little more neutral. So, so what we’re going to do is we’re going to breathe into our belly. So you breathe down as you inhale. And this is really weird for a lot of people. If you’ve never done it, it’s very yoga like thing to do. So if you do a lot of yoga, you may be experienced with it. But it’s breathing down into your diaphragm, which is this muscle that sits right under your lungs under your ribcage. It’s kind of like this kind of muscle. So when your lungs inhale it, it pushes that muscle down. As you exhale, it goes up as you inhale, it pushes it down. The purpose of that diaphragm it sits over your internal organs and there’s a vagus nerve, which starts at your brainstem and it goes down through your jaw through your neck down through your lungs, and through that diaphragm into all your internal organs. So if you’ve ever seen a newborn baby, when they’re sleeping, their little belly comes up and down. They’re not breathing up here. This is where anxiety happens up in your chest. So if you’ve ever like had a panic attack, you’re like breathing up here where if you could slow down and breathe down into the belly, it can can reduce that feeling that anxious feeling. So what the vagus nerve does is when you’re pushing on that diaphragm, it tells the brain to release endorphins and serotonin, all the happy chemicals that make you feel euphoric and happy. It also tells those organs to detox. So you want to drink a lot of water after you do this kind of breath work because your lot your organs are going to flush like your gallbladder, your liver, all your intestines, they’re going to flush so you want to be able to like pee that out and not reabsorb it. So that’s a little history behind this type of breath work. So what we’re going to do is we’re going to breathe about 80% into our belly. And then we’re going to breathe another sip into our upper. And then we’re going to get out so its belly chest release all through the mouth. And there’s no holding. So this is a circular breaths. So there’s no breath holds there. There’s like if you’ve ever heard of Wim Hof, which a lot of people are familiar with, he does the breath hold, he’s trying to teach you to jump in ice water and stuff. We’re just trying to release some emotions here. So what we’re going to do is we’re gonna breed circular, we’re gonna let it in and out. We’re not. We’re not blowing in sucking a straw.

Okay, so what happens when you blow that causes tetany. So tetany is sometimes called lobster claws in your hands will kind of do this. People are like, Oh, I’m gonna die. But no, it’s just called tetany. And it’s what’s happening is, a lot of times, if your body’s very acidic, and the pH is adjusting very quickly, it can cause these little cramps. It’s kind of like when a runner runs, and they get the cramps, because they’re not breathing correctly. So that’s what happens. It doesn’t hurt. I’ve never had anyone say it hurts. It just can be a little shocking. In the middle of it, you’re like what’s happening, you know, but it goes away. So it’s really intense, you’re going to feel really euphoric, you’re going to be tingling all over. But at any time, you could just, you know, breathe through your nose, close your mouth. And you know, you’re in control. But it can, I’ve had people say it felt a little bit like the start of a panic attack, where you kind of have that rule. But if you push through that, and even during a panic attack, if you can breathe deeply through the panic, you can kind of process it instead of focusing on it, focusing more on your breath. Okay,

Michael –
Okay, and what do you typically What’s the timeframe? Like? What’s a session with you like,

Amber –
oh, yeah, normally, my sessions are an hour, we usually breathe for about 30 to 40 minutes of that the rest is meat, splaining it and then afterwards, you need a few minutes to come back to life. So yeah, it’s usually for breathing, it’s about 30 to 40 minutes.

Michael –
Are there any Have you ever had any someone not take to it or have like a panic attack by doing it or anything of that nature?

Amber –
No, I’ve never had anyone, like pass out or have a panic attack, I have had someone get up and leave in the middle. Um, it’s, it’s an intense thing. And if you’re not ready to process it, it can be a little overwhelming. But I try to tell people go into it with an open mind. And just see, I mean, what do you have to lose? You’re just breathing, you know, where you we lie on the floor, you know, so you’re not gonna pass out? I’ve never seen anyone, like have any adverse reactions or anything? It’s not right. It’s because it’s so powerful. It’s not recommended. If you have like, uncontrolled blood pressure, or, you know, that kind of thing, just because it can make you your blood, like really beat your heartbeat really fast. It can cause some blood pressure issues. But yeah, if it’s controlled, or if you’re on a medication or something like that, it’s perfectly fine. And how

Michael –
And how often do you recommend people do it?

Amber –
I’ve had times where I needed to do it every day for a week or something. But, you know, once a week, whenever you feel the need, once a month, if you if you do it, and you’re like, Okay, I’m processing a lot, and then you start to feel good, then you can just do maintenance and say I’m gonna go once a month, or just as needed. But um, yeah, if you could literally do it every day.

Michael –
What are you typically seeing, like, two questions, or what do you typically seen in terms of people coming back? Like, do you see how frequent you know, I know, these are generalized questions. Yeah. What clientele? Is it more? I’m assuming it’s more female, but maybe not.

Amber –
It’s not. It’s a very masculine type of breath work. I do have women come and have, you know, very powerful experiences I did. But I find that the men that do it, they come back more regularly. And they sit up and say, Wow, this is really what I needed today. It’s very, like I said, it’s very powerful. And some women can find that off putting so it just depends on what you’re trying to process what you’re trying to work through and what your purpose is. It’s not a meditative relaxing experience at all. It’s hard work like you, your ribs hurt and and yeah, you get it’s it’s intense, but afterwards, like for me, and for I’ve had a lot of people tell me like the day after a few days after, everything was brighter, like there were more alerts, because we were breathing so shallow, just enough to live. I mean, how often do you even think about it? Breathing. Have you ever like took a deep breath and be like, Whoa, I haven’t had a deep breath in a long time. Like, I just physically felt myself inhale deeply. Just because we just, we don’t even think about it, it just kind of happens. Yep. You know, so

Michael –
have you ever had anyone, like break down like emotionally after?

Amber –
Always, yeah, that’s the best part is being there to support someone when they’re going through releasing something. And if you think about, like, when you get angry, you’re like, Oh, I’m so mad, and you click everything right. Or when you’re sad you your Sabi, like you’re holding your breath, you know. So if you think about all of the intense emotions that we try to like, tamp down and push away, they’re all ones that kind of, like right in that solar plexus area, right in the ribs in the lungs, and belly. It’s where you kind of hold it. So when you’re doing this breathing, it kind of somehow it releases all that stuff, it really kind of lets it go. And, and because I’m there, I’m encouraging you like, let it up, whatever bubbles up, let it let it out. You know, and I think a lot of people just feel like, they need that space. And they need that ability and that permission to release the stuff that they’re holding on to because what do you do? You know, you I had, you know, two kids, I was a single mother of two kids and I couldn’t go around, like, being angry or crying all the time, I had to show a mask that everything was fine, because you want your kids and those around you and people at work to, to think that you got your shit together. And then you go home and you’re falling apart. You know, and this is a good way you need to find a way to let it out. Whether it’s breathwork or dancing or yoga, or, you know, I used to go do kickboxing and I mean, it was so you know, powerful to just punch the bag and picture that person at work that drives you nuts and just kick them you know, what it is?

Michael –
Yeah, your body. I mean, when you’re in fight or flight, right, it does produce the chemicals, the mechanisms to fight or flight. And if you’re if you’re not doing those things, it just staying in you it’s not, you know, yeah, that shits gonna catch up with you. So I think what we’ll do is, is we’re talking about the one a mini session, so why don’t we skip to the last question that I asked. And then then we can sort of end with a session at the end, I think that would be a better. So this is the last question as everyone is what words of wisdom would you impart to a man who’s just started this shitty process of divorce?

Amber –
Mm hmm. Yeah, um, I guess I would say you know, allow yourself to feel all the emotions, you know, you’re here to do that. We’re not here to to hold them in. Don’t run from them. Don’t swallow them down. Don’t ignore it. Like let them find a way to process them. You know, whether it’s feeding the ducks by the pond or breath work or, you know, whatever it is kickboxing, find a healthy way to process the emotions and don’t hold them in.

Michael –
Great. I think that’s a an essential step in healing from this. If you’re not going to feel the emotions, you’re never going to heal from. Exactly. Okay, so hopefully I don’t fall off my stool. And or break down and crying. Although

Amber –
Do it, do it, you’ll feel better.

Michael –
That’s okay. So let’s do it. I’m a little nervous. Be honest. I’ve never done anything like this before. So

Amber –
we’ll just do five minutes. Okay, so is that good? Yeah, I’m gonna go longer. No, no. Okay. First minutes. Yeah, baby,

Michael –
Yeah, baby, step into it. We’ll do five minutes. You know, this is probably something guys if if you’re interested in this is probably something Amber and I will figure out how to do together at some point for some of you guys that are interested to have a class and things of that nature. So

Amber –
yeah, I can totally do it on Zoom. So that would be great.

Michael –
Yeah. So let’s, let’s do baby steps. For Michael. Let’s do five minutes.

Amber –
Okay, sounds great. All right. So we’re gonna start, let’s just get grounded. So just close your eyes. And I know there’s a lot of, you know, computers and energy around so we’re just going to kind of let those go away. So as we start to breathe, remember we’re breathing about 80% of our inhale into our belly, and another 20% into our upper chest, all with the mouth open and relaxed. Okay, so we’re going to breathe in. Belly, chest release, belly, chest release. No breaks, no holds, keep breathing, your mouth is going to feel dry, your mind is going to try to distract you just keep breathing, it’ll all go away. This is just your body tried to protect you from the work that you’re doing and what it knows might come up which our emotions traumas. Just keep breathing through it try to make big breaths. And if you want to put one hand on your belly and one hand on your heart and feel yourself pushing your hands away from your body you’ll start to feel tingling and euphoric, that’s completely normal. You might feel a little dizzy. That’s also normal, just push through it. If it feels a little bit scary, just remember, at any time, you can close your mouth and just breathe through your nose. But I encourage you to push past your comfort zone. So push, breathe bigger, breathe deeper. If you like the way it feels, you can breathe a little faster and a little deeper

we’re two minutes in. So keep going. push past that voice. It’s telling you to stop that you look silly that you’re thirsty. It’s all normal

Ah. Good job. Keep breathing. Two more minutes. Imagine going for 40 minutes. I know you can feel it. I know it can feel weird and intense the first time and that’s normal. It could feel really good if you like it

try to find a rhythm that works for you. You could do it like one big breath I tried to do the two part breath because it makes you remember to breathe belly chest belly chest

as you get more familiar and you can find the pace that feels good for you. We got one more minute you can do it hang in there

U
you can start feeling a little dizziness in your head a little. Whoo. Yeah, feels good. Hang in there. 30 more seconds you can do you notice what might be coming up for you. Maybe it’s a little self consciousness. Maybe you’re worried about how you feel or look

maybe you feel a little sadness popping up or a little anger. Maybe you feel tightness. Try to relax. Try to let your fist loose. Maybe you wiggle your fingers in your hands. If they’re tingling. release that energy sometimes just shake it on Bill’s skin. You can roll your neck.

Just keep breathing you’re almost there. few more breaths. Try to make them bigger. Maybe on your exhale you really like Ah let it out.

Sometimes that feels good to just breathe it out with an intensity All right, we’ve gone five minutes. So let’s just close our mouth, breathing through our nose normally. Maybe you breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth for a few breaths.

just allowing yourself to come back to normalcy where you feel comfortable slow, inhale, slow exhale. Try to go as long as you can maybe to the counter five or six

maybe add back in that hold where you do the hold of it between your inhale and your exhale. Find that breath that feels good to you when you feel comfortable and ready, you could slowly open your eyes oh shit.

Michael –
oh shit its tense for sure. Yeah, every every fucking thing you said like you might be a little this. You might feel that Fuck yeah, I am a little dizzy, a little tingly. I’m a little afraid. I’m a little anxiety a little bit because, like you said, it’s like, it’s it’s almost like you’re denying that deep breath to like, it’s really hard to explain. It’s intense. I tell you that I don’t. I’m glad I only did five minutes. My chest started hurting a little bit just in terms of like, not my ribs. But my chest. I don’t know if I was, I did feel like because I think I had a little anxiety over it. I did feel a little closed off and a little Yeah, holding in sort of, so to speak.

Amber –
So yeah. So that’s why I normally have people lay down. Because when you’re sitting up, you’re also using all of your abs and all your back. So when you laid out it just really didn’t open. So it’s really good. When you’re laying down. I normally have people just in that relaxed state the whole time so they can really I am weirdo like I will start off laying down and then I sit up I like to move around because you can use the longer you do it that your fingers start to feel like electrified and I need to move

Michael –
it around mouth to a tingling Yeah. Now my jaw feels something I can’t really describe it. But yeah, wow, that’s really fucking intense.

Amber –
Yeah, it’s a it’s because the pH in your blood is changing. And so your body’s trying to adjust quickly. So and like you said earlier, you know, you get into that fight or flight or sometimes freeze people freeze, you know, you get there. So what this breathwork does is it takes you to the heightened fight or flight like, Whoo, I’m gonna die. Yeah. And then you come down at the end, and the last 10 minutes is just bliss. Yeah. So what it’s doing is it’s resetting your nervous system by taking you if you think about the stress that we deal with every day, whether it’s you know, jobs, traffic, whatever, bills, divorce, you’re living at this low level of stress that you feel like, Oh, it’s just normal. It’s not our bodies are not meant to deal with this kind of stress. And so what this does is it takes you all the way up and brings you back down so that you know, okay, this is my starting ground where I need to be and when you start to feel that look, again, breathe, and then come back down. So once you kind of have your your what do you call it your line of your beginning line? Like this is my boundary where I need to be your foundation, so I know. I know when I’m not feeling that that I need to do something to release. What’s what’s inside.

Michael –
Boy, that was fucking intense. I can’t imagine doing 30 or 40 Fucking men. I mean, I guess we got to do it. I definitely wanted I think I do wonder about the how laying down would be more beneficial for me because I definitely felt. I mean, I’m a big dude. Anyway, my posture probably sucks.

Amber –

So I mean, I feel I can say you were kind of your shoulders were a little grounded. Yeah, I

Michael –

Yeah, I think was honestly the fear too. There was a part of me like, fuck am I get myself into here? You know, because more and so I’m like, oh, no, we’ll see. So I think there was a little bit of that too. Absolutely. But uh, yeah, really? Yeah, I can’t describe it. Gentlemen. I highly recommend it. We definitely have to do a class we’ll figure out well, I can tell you what I didn’t think about any any of my fucking problems. I didn’t think about anything, right. Yeah, that’s that’s part of getting in your body. You don’t get Get out of your head get in your body. So you can I don’t know about you, you are these guys. I know some of them very, very well. I love them dearly. I’m in my head a lot, right? I wish I could shut my fucking brain off. And never, people always ask me, How do you you know, you got so much going on? It’s because this thing doesn’t shut off. It’s always thinking about well, what else do I got to do? And in those moments when you’re focused on something other than your fucking problems, it’s It’s very freeing, right? That was really, really awesome. I am definitely intrigued and would love to do a longer session. Yeah. So we will talk about that for sure offline. How can people find you? What’s the best way to get a hold of you?

Amber –
Yeah, my website is create with amber.com I have on there all my events that I do. You can also sign up to do zooms offer zoom one on ones or groups I can do as well. So yeah, I would love to have anyone reach out if you have questions about breathwork different types of breath work. I’m here to answer questions. I’m this is kind of my passion and my obsession, and this is what’s worked for me, my ulcers are gone, my stress is gone. I don’t have to take you know, like, like, clonidine pins anymore to be able to sleep at night. And I’m telling you, this has been the thing that has done it for me. So that’s why I do this is because there are other ways to medicate yourself without drugs and alcohol. If you can literally breathe your way into into health and feeling good.

Michael –
Well, like it’s a your passion is inspiring. And it makes me emotional. Honestly, anytime someone has something that they love so much. There’s something about that, that just touches a place in me because I think it’s so hard in today’s world to find that and then when you find someone that has that it’s just it’s almost spiritual in a way it’s it’s special because so many of us are running around this fucking rat race of corporate America and we don’t have that thing. And I mean I do with this and when I see it, it’s really, really inspiring and awesome. So thank you for being you. Thank you for doing this. And we will definitely do it again and we will definitely work together in the future.

Amber –
I love it. Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it.

Michael –
You’re welcome. Thank you.

Episode 61 – Anxiety and Breathwork with Amber

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