Episode 82 - Transcript - Dating For The Divorced Man - Dating Coach Evan Davis

By Michael Rhodes | October 13, 2022

This is a transcription of Episode 82.  The transcription was done by software, apologies for anything that seems out of whack. A link to the episode is below.

Michael 0:00
Joining me today is Evan Davis from formers potential.com. Evan wants to jump right into it. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Evan 0:19
Yeah, man. So thanks for having me. I personally have been coaching men for a little over four years now. And it’s coming up on two years that have actually been posting a lot more on social media. So with the advent of TiC tock Instagram, Instagram, Rails, YouTube shorts, I’ve been focused a lot more on short form content. But you know, I specialize in helping men that are either getting out of breakups, you know, recovering from divorces, I help them get back into the dating game. Master areas like online dating, you know, how to approach women where to meet women, and really, ultimately how to, you know, raise women’s attraction over time, which I think is a big thing, because a lot of the guys I work with they, you know, they find that they can attract some women, but maybe getting them to be perpetually more, more interested over time is a little bit difficult for them. So yeah, I’ve been working with men for a little over four years now. And I’ve been on social media for about two years now. And it’s been an interesting ride so far,

Michael 1:07
I’m sure. How did you get started, like, what motivated you to do this?

Evan 1:12
Well, I think like most people, it’s kind of a self discovery journey. At first, you know, you go through some tough times yourself, you go through a breakup, you feel the woman that you you’re really into pulling back. And you really want to understand why that happened. And ultimately regain, regain that control of your life and see what you can do moving forward to make sure it doesn’t happen again. So that was about six years or so ago for me. And then there was about a two year kind of self discovery process where I really had to learn the ins and outs of dating, understanding women. And then just kind of as a side note to like, after getting on social media, I’ve actually worked with a good amount of women as well, like I’ve coached a good amount of women. And I’ve gathered a lot of feedback from women too, which I think is helpful to bring back the guy. So I think out of the about 475,000 followers I have a little under 200 are actually women, because women were really interested, some women are really interested to hear a guy’s opinion on things.

Michael 2:06
Yeah, I’m sure that’s valuable Intel, for sure. So we’re gonna talk online dating apps online, whatever, whatever you. I mean, really, it’s apps at this point, right. So we’re gonna talk about today, I want to start off with with a caveat, and this is my third episode on dating. And I realized that as, as people, we like to partner we want to partner it’s a very natural thing to want to desire. However, doing what I do, I see a lot of men diving right back into another relationship. And it usually ends up to be more painful when that one ends. And it typically does when it’s a quote, unquote, rebound. It’s it can be anecdotally more painful than the actual divorce itself. So I realized that this, this topic might seem like I’m being a bit hypocritical, because I’ve preached this all the time. But I’m not I’m not because I think dating is important. And dating is something that we all, you know, need in some ways, right? If we were trying to find that, that mate in life, but I caution all of you, please make sure that you’re ready. So with that said, once they are sure that they are ready, what are some of the things that they can avoid doing when they sign up for Bumble, Tinder match whatever they choose to get on?

Evan 3:34
Yeah, and you make a really good point, too. I think, you know, as you mentioned, before, men get into dating, and they really jump into online dating or, you know, dating apps, or even getting back into the dating game itself, you make a really good point, I mean, ultimately, if somebody is coming into the equation, feeling a little bit damaged, a little bit broken, maybe not ready to date, if it doesn’t work out with that next person, it’s kind of reopening that wound, it’s reopening that scar that you have from the previous relationship. Another thing is, if you’re not truly ready to date, it’s really not, it’s really not a beneficial thing for the woman that you’re trying to date either because you’re not really bringing your whole self to the equation. So I second that, I think that there’s a lot of guys who come to me that maybe it is a little bit too soon. And I’ll give them kind of a game plan to work on over the next, you know, two, three months to, to get themselves back into a better position before they really, you know, continue to date too. So you make a good point. Now, in terms of the online dating piece, the first and foremost thing is we as guys, we hate to take pictures, like we’re not really going out to the to the restaurant with our friends to the bars or our friends, you know, to sporting events and saying, Hey, let’s take a picture. Right? So one of the most difficult things for men and one of the biggest pitfalls I see men making is just having very old pictures. The bottom line is we’re all in different parts of our life. And we have to be honest with who we’re portraying ourselves to be but we also have to be putting our best foot forward right? So I think just having pictures that are up to date and not old are one of the biggest struggles that I see that I see men you know having now To combat this, there are there are a couple of ways and you know, I have I have an online dating course I walk guys through but there’s there’s two different schools of thought for hiring somebody to take pictures for you. There’s there’s a lot of guys that say, Should I hire someone who’s actually a photographer who’s trained to do this? And then there’s people who say, Should I just get a friend to do it? You know, should I just do it on my phone? My rule of thumb with this is do not have more than two very, very, very high quality LinkedIn type pictures on your on your dating profile, right? What happens is if you find a photographer who’s going to take these these good shots for you, these headshots for you, it’s going to look very overproduced, if you have more than one or two of those, I would say to absolute maximum on your profile. So I would say you should have one very high quality picture on there, maybe from somebody who is like a photographer, great person. But ultimately, if you just kind of put your ego to the side, put your pride aside and you grab a buddy and say, Hey, listen, man, I’ve got to get some new updated photos, I’m gonna bring a couple different shirts, we’re gonna go to a couple different areas in this city, we’re gonna go to a couple of different places that I like, take four or five pictures for me, literally within two to three hours in one afternoon, you can get your whole profile taken care of. And it is going to exponentially improve the types of women that you’re matching with. Because really, it is like your marketing. And I break this down a lot for the guys I work with to attraction and dating apps are like a business’s marketing. Dating is like sales in a relationship is like customer service. So if the front end of the process is really broken, and your marketing is not good, you know, your website, your branding, all these links are not good. It’s really going to limit people from knowing what they’re getting into. So that’s what I would say most men struggle with is just having the right pictures, because we don’t we don’t take pictures a lot as guys.

Michael 6:40
Yeah, very true. Yeah, I kind of struggle with that myself. It’s just, I think it messes up or seemingly messes up here. And when your experience like, oh, let’s stop and take a selfie or whatever, and it can definitely sort of throw a wrench into or can feel like it throws a wrench into to your experience and what you’re experiencing in the moment. So but what are some of the things that guys makes mistakes that they make? Besides the pictures thing that seems to be somewhat easy fix what are some other things?

Evan 7:09
Great. So I think it makes sense to talk a little bit more about the types of pictures that guys should have, then we can talk about their prompts and their bios as well. So the types of pictures that guys should have, I think we have to first start off with what they should avoid. And I ran an interesting test. So I put a video out on Tik Tok, I put a video out on Instagram and I said, Hey, listen, guys, I’m going to do maybe I think I had like 70 Plus guys that came through that actually sent me their profiles, I said, I’m going to do free profile reviews, send it to this number I have a texting number, people can reach out to me at some of your pictures, I’ll give you one message of follow up and feedback. And here’s what you should change the vast majority of men, when I looked at their pictures, too many selfies, immediately, you have to remove the selfies. And if you do have a selfie, and it is a good one, please do not have more than one. A selfie indicates that you don’t really live a good social life, you don’t really have a good social life. And whether guys do or don’t, most men still lack the good pictures that we talked about before to actually get on their profile. So please get rid of selfies. If you have a picture of yourself without a shirt on, please make sure it’s something conducive to not having a shirt on you’re at the beach or you’re on a boat. Right? Please no shirtless mirror pics, please no mirror pics in general. I don’t know why I saw this other one a lot pictures with filters on them. Like I actually saw a lot of guys who kind of had filters on their pictures, and it was a little bit odd. You’d be surprised by how many guys actually had that. And then also avoid pictures with if you can, you know with your ex, right with a lot of other women, some guys think that if they put pictures of yours on there with a bunch of other women that maybe it will induce some kind of competition doesn’t work that way. Women don’t want to see pictures of you with other women. And guys don’t want to see pictures of women with other guys. So just one thing to keep in mind there. Now in terms of the types of pictures that men should have, if you are in a group picture, I recommend no more than two pictures when you are in a group. But if you are going to use a group picture, you need to make sure that you are the highlight of the group. Another thing that guys asked me a lot is maybe guys that are not super tall, or maybe guys that are a little bit shorter. What I recommend on this is don’t lie about your height. I mean, ultimately, if somebody is going to meet you in person, they’re going to see how tall you are. You have to leave with other things you have to do with your confidence, your success, like your fashion, everything else like that. But if you’re going to be taking a picture in a group of people and you are a guy who’s shorter, it’s not going to serve you very well to be standing next to your friend who’s six foot four. So just just one thing to keep in mind with that because I have shorter guys that I work with that asked me these questions. I recommend having an activity or hobby picture, doing something that you like. And I also recommend a bit of a family oriented picture. So whether that’s one of your group pictures or not. I recommend having like a family oriented picture or maybe a picture with your pet. But keep in mind when it comes to the picture As variety is usually going to be more important than just like focusing on on one thing because nobody wants to talk to a guy that’s, that’s unilateral or unidimensional. Women want to see that a guy can offer a lot of different things and lives a very interesting life. So again, I think it’s more important for the guys to focus on what to avoid, as opposed to like having all these amazing variety of ones as long as they’re higher quality pictures, right? Because the just a quick tangent here, when men are looking at dating apps and women are looking at dating apps, women are seeking to disqualify men based on one or two bad pictures because women are usually dating with more abundance. And men are usually approaching dating from scarcity. Unfortunately, because we’re the ones who have to approach we’re the ones who have to go out and find women. So ultimately, if a guy sees a few really attractive pictures on the girl’s profile, they’re going to swipe right, or they’re going to double tap. And like her profile. If a woman sees 95% of something that she really likes, and 5% of it is something that really spooks her away, she’s just not going to like your profile. So sometimes less is more in regards of like disclosing a lot of this information. So I would say ultimately, that’s my recommendation on the pictures. Now, when it comes to the bios, in the prompts, there’s one main thing that men are doing drastically wrong. And that is they’re trying to educate women about themselves. And that is not the goal of dating apps, because we have to think about, again, dating apps like marketing for a business, you want there to be a level of understanding that’s being conveyed. But a lot of that can be done to your pictures. When you have a bio and you have prompts, you get a limited amount of space and time to convey the things that you like to do that you do or don’t like. But the difference should be your bio and your prompts. I say they should be you know, responsible and clickable. I don’t know if those are words, but I still say it all the time, responsible and clickable. So you want them to be about topics that women want to talk about. Because again, anybody who’s really good at you know, marketing, understanding, business understanding, you know, even copywriting understand how to influence people, they know that it’s about the person in front of them. And it’s not about you, your profile, although it is you it should be about getting them interested in wanting to talk to you because they have something in common with you. Gotcha.

Michael 12:20
Interesting. Well, so So what are some of those things? You know, I guess you’re talking about what hobbies exterior talk about experiences? Like what are some of those things that you recommend that people do put in those in those piles?

Evan 12:35
Yeah, so if I’m thinking about, we’ll start off with apps like, like hinge or Bumble, because hinge and Bumble both have the ability to give you prompts, obviously, on hand, you can, you can click on those you can like those, what I recommend on that is hinge does a good job of giving you things that you can kind of you can kind of run with right, like they give you some categories that you can start with. I don’t know why this is the case. And I don’t think men really have to care or really want to talk about these things. But women seem to talk about them disproportionately from all the testing that I’ve done on this. Number one is wine. And number two is astrology. Now guys are gonna be like, I don’t want to talk about astrology. It’s not about you, dude. Nobody cares. It’s about sparking a debate of some sort, to have a conversation or to agree on something and find something in common. So how I’ve seen this work before, a lot of profiles. And I think it also depends a little bit on the age demographic to have the guy right. But what I’ve seen interesting is there’s a there’s a prompt on, on hinge that’s along the lines of like, let’s debate this topic. And you can put in something very vague along lines of astrology being relevant. And I don’t know why. But I’ve had so many guys have success with this prompt, because they’re not saying whether they agree. They’re not saying whether they disagree. They’re just putting a topic out there that women want to talk about. And a lot of women are like, I think it’s BS, and then there are other women that are like, what’s your sign, and a smart man can weave that conversation down a more interesting topic. Now I think wine is a good thing to talk about, because I think going to grab wine or going to a wine bar on a first date is a really good part of a first date. Because it’s not necessarily like a very expensive dinner, but it’s also not going to a dive bar to just have a beer. So I think it’s a good like kind of in between for guys. So those are two topics that I see doing very well. Otherwise, I think one out of the three prompts in your profile, it should be something about you like that can give a pretty good rundown of you like your ideal day, something like that. And really what that looks like for you because I think a lot of women can can resonate with that and they can agree or maybe even like, you know, sports that you like activities that you love, like the other two should most definitely be focused on opening a dialogue and opening a conversation whether it’s about agreeing on something or debating on something in terms of the bios, like whether you’re on Bumble or Tinder, I think less is more. I think your prompts are going to do a little bit more for you than then your bio In terms of the bio, something that I’ve seen work pretty well is a little bit of humor, like a little bit of dry sense of humor, but not a lot, because you don’t want to, again, if you say something that you think is funny that they don’t think is funny, or it’s political or controversial, they’re just not going to go for it. So I’ve seen something to the degree of like a small, humble brag, and then a little bit of self deprecating humor works pretty well. So you know, you know, successful guy who does like XYZ during the day, but still don’t know how to set up Ikea furniture, like something stupid like that, it works pretty well. So those are kind of the tenants that I would, that I would put out there. But again, like your pictures are gonna be, they’re gonna be very important in the grand scheme of things.

Michael 15:38
So you, let’s say, you know, you throw your line out there, so to speak, and you get a bite. Take me through that process. You know, what are you saying? How long before you ask for a number? How long before you ask for a date? How does that all? How do you navigate? How do you tell guys how to navigate that process?

Evan 15:54
Yeah. So once you’ve passed the initial test of your pictures being good enough, and the the prompts and the BIOS being good enough, when you pass all those tests, what I would recommend and oddly enough, like, I think a lot of people would think that asking questions, does a little bit better than making statements. But there’s a lot of research done in unhinge in particular, what people don’t know is hinge is actually owned by match group, which owns Tinder. And all these companies, they kind of, they’re like the same company. But the apps functional with differently. So if they have like kind of a conglomerate on the dating app thing, I think Bumble is really the only one that’s independent. A lot of the other ones are owned by match group, which I think was originally match.com, which is now has Tinder match.com, all these other companies. What’s interesting, that I find is if you think about this from a because I always go back to business, as I always think about like, you know, it’s like sales, its influence, it’s getting somebody interested peeking their interest, conveying value, and then trying to close that interaction for the number for the date. What I find is if you can make a statement, or you can ask for a small like, give at the beginning, it’s going to open up the conversation. So sometimes I’ll I’ll start off, and I’ll open up a window by saying, Hey, I have a really random question for you. Like who the hell is not going to answer that? Right? If they don’t answer that they’re just they’re boring, or they don’t like you. So sometimes they’ll say like, Hey, I have a really random question for you. And then I’ll wait till the answer. And then I might pivot to something that I would refer to as like a would you rather question? So you can literally Google like, would you rather question and you can plug and play, and you can do it that way. So that’s something that’s something that I might recommend. On top of that, what you could really do is if you pay attention to their profile, and their profile is relatively interesting, then I like to I like to leverage something that I call like the insider principle, and like, the insider principle, is what I refer to as when you to really connect on something that’s that’s really like niche. So say that you match with a girl and she’s into, I don’t know, like, holistic health, or she’s into functional medicine, functional nutrition, she’s ended up going to the gym, something like that. Please do not make this broad. You cannot make this broad, because Oh, I see you like to go to the gym like blah, blah, blah, no, it’s not about that. You have to say something very specific about a very specific niche topic within that realm. So the way that this would look as if I met a woman who was like maybe into holistic nutrition or into functional medicine or something, I would say, Have you ever seen like blank or blank content before? Like, what do you think about this? Because like, I know that if she’s really into that thing, or she’s like, really down the rabbit hole on that topic, it’s like an instant connection at a much deeper level than just saying, Oh, I see like to eat healthy, like, what diet do you follow? Like, I think getting really niche specific on something that you would connect on would work? Well, now, to your original question on how long you should be talking or DMing. Before you close for the number, what I would recommend is, I would say that each of you should send between four to six messages a piece, back and forth three to six, I would recommend one or two. If your profile is really dialed in, you’re really attractive guy like everything is the way it needs to be. It could work. But we have to understand that again, women are dating with abundance, women are dealing with options. And they’re really trying to filter out the men that maybe they don’t feel safe around the men that they’re not interested in. And the men that they don’t really know super well. So you can close you can close for the number with a few expectations based on how the conversation went. But I think the ideal way to do it would be to say like, you can either drop her your number, or you can ask for her number. And you can set you can set up the conversation with the expectation of like, Hey, I’ve got a lot of things going on over the next, you know, four or five days, but I think it would be great to FaceTime in the meantime. And then if we like we get along well, like let’s schedule real date. This is the perfect way to do things because you’re kind of taking you’re taking the ball back into your court in qualifying her. You’re saying hey listen, I I’m interested in you, I think it’d be cool to get together sometime. But I think we should talk a little bit more. So you’re handling the objection before she gives you the objection. Because what what is going to happen more often than not as after three or four messages back and forth apiece, some women are going to be like, I liked this guy, but I don’t know if he’s gonna be too pushy. I don’t know, if he’s gonna be trying to hang out tonight. I don’t know if he’s going to do all these things wrong that every other man is doing wrong. So ultimately, what I think would be beneficial would be if that guy were to message her and say, Hey, listen, I really enjoyed this conversation. So far, you seem really cool. We’re nice. We can get together next week, sometime for a drink or food. But in the meantime, like, let’s FaceTime, here’s my number, send me a text. And if she’s interested, she’ll text you. If she doesn’t text, you, she’s wasting your time. That’s why I recommend there’s no need to send more than like, six messages a piece back and forth. Because eventually you’ll get to a point where the conversation is either good, and there’s nothing else talked about, or it kind of dries up and she just doesn’t pay attention.

Michael 20:56
Now in terms of nano Bumble, you de have the message you first so that aside, that one doesn’t count. But let’s say you match someone Tinder, what the fuck ever? And you send out that first text or message that question whatever it is that you sent? How long? Are you waiting for a response before you unmatch? Or move on? Or whatever? Or do you just stay matched? And you know, maybe six months later, she messes? How do you handle that?

Evan 21:27
Yeah, I would, I would just I would just probably stay matched. There’s not much of a reason not to, I think sometimes we as guys get frustrated and just get past and want to unmatch. But that’s kind of us like living through our own ego and getting frustrated. And like, you know, screw her, I’m gonna delete this. In reality, what I would recommend is, if you send a message to a girl, and she doesn’t respond, this is one of the biggest thing that I had to kind of come to grips with as a man is it’s not always, it’s not always because she’s not into you. It’s because she has a lot of notifications. And she just literally owes you nothing. Like she owes you nothing. You know what I mean? Like you guys haven’t talked, given that a conversation, we put a lot of like, we put a lot of stock in matching when the girl was attractive, when in reality, maybe like 20% of the time, they’ll get a date. So there’s really not a reason to get your expectations super high or get annoyed about it. I just think it’s like, you got to kind of move on. But what I will say is, I’ve had and I’ve seen my clients have a good amount of success with letting it breathe for like three days and then sending another message because again, the only reason we won’t do that is because of our egos. Now, I don’t consider this chasing, I don’t consider over pursuing because you haven’t even gone on a date yet. So it’s not even like, you know, chasing or pursuing is a continuous action, we as men need to understand that we need to do the, like the work and put in the effort at the very beginning to get to the date. Again, that’s the marketing, that’s the advertising the whatever, then when you get to the date, that’s when you’re selling. And if the date goes really well and you like each other, then you got to go back and do even even amounts of energy and effort. But at the beginning on dating apps, we have to suck up, suck it up, and we have to just grin and bear it, unfortunately. But if you dial in your profiles, and you know you’re good at the conversation piece, like, you’re gonna be so much better than the vast majority of men, because the vast majority of men stuff that I review, it’s, it’s really bad. Like, it’s horrible. It’s horrible. Like, I’m being transparent. And I have to say this because I gotta wait guys up, it’s bad. And they got to do better, because I know that they have more to offer and they just have to put their best foot forward.

Michael 23:27
So let’s, let’s take this train on down the tracks, right, we get a date we go out, and I’m gonna give you two scenarios. One, it was awesome. And you want to have a second date? How do you approach that? And to? It wasn’t for you so much. And how do you gracefully? And you can tell she’s into you because she’s wanting it for various reasons, various signs. How do you gracefully say, No, thank you. So both scenarios,

Evan 23:52
we’ll start with that one because little bit easier. What I would recommend with that is, if I’m not super interested in a girl, and my clients are not super interested in a girl after a date, what I will do is, I don’t even urge my guys to follow up. Ultimately, if you’re not super interested, and you only went on one date, there’s there’s no you don’t owe each other anything. There’s no reason to follow up. But if she follows up because most women will follow up if they’re very interested in you after the date, where she texts you after what I would recommend is definitely be straight up, delete people on and just say hey, listen, like I had a good time with you. But for me, I didn’t feel an emotional connection. That’s it. You know, for me, I didn’t feel an emotional connection. You’re really cool person like, you know, good luck. Good luck with with your dating like, Yeah, that’s really it. Now, if you really liked a girl and you want to see her again, there are different schools of thought on this. What I would recommend is there’s a bit of a sliding scale depending on how well the date when there are just certain dates where you know that the woman is very interested in you. She said she wanted to see you again. You were interested in her maybe you said do you want to see her again? What I usually do is After leaving that date, and headed back home, whatever, I don’t usually text at night, because I want to see if she is going to send a thank you text after that date because of course, I as the man, I picked the place I paid. I took the lead, I did all those good things. Maybe she said, thank you in person, I’m sure she did most women well, but I want to see if she texts me first after that date. Now, some people could say that’s a game, some people could say whatever, I don’t really think it’s a game. Like, I don’t feel compelled to text a woman all the time. So why would I text her for the date immediately, just because I think I have to text her. So here’s what I recommend. And the day went really well. And you know what, really well, and you know, you both want to see each other again, send her a text or a voice note because a voice note or voice message is a really powerful tool for guys to use and dating. So I would most definitely recommend doing that. If you know your guy who’s listening, you’re thinking about how to differentiate, send her a text or a voice note around like, the end of your workday the next day. So say you got to work at like four or five o’clock, you haven’t heard from her, you can just shoot her a text message, say, hey, again, it was great seeing you last night, you know, had a really good time. Don’t try to schedule the date, through that text. Wait to see if she texts back, then you go back to that, like three or four text message back and forth. You know, talk about something from the date refer back to something you had in common. And then you say, Hey, listen, like I’m tied up for the next three days. But on, you know, Friday or Saturday, I’m completely open would really like to see you again. How’s that worked for you. So then you go back in, and then I would recommend you kind of rinse and repeat this for the first couple weeks of dating. And then you’re just inevitably going to be talking more talking on the phone more and seeing each other more. And that’s kind of the beginning part of the process.

Michael 26:40
And how soon do you like, if you get the number you get off the app, right? You start texting? Yeah. And do you unmatch? Or does it you just don’t care? You just

Evan 26:51
I just leave it. I just leave it. It’s it’s funny sometimes, when guys leave the match, if maybe they update their profiles, they’re going on more dates, like the woman that they’re talking to can get a little bit like, insecure about that. But you know, we’ve all seen that now people change their location, people change their bios or pictures like That’s life. I mean, until you’ve gone on a decent amount of dates, and you’re exclusive and no longer dating other people. You’re free to do what you want.

Michael 27:15
Then, what do you think the percentage is? I think their numbers are out there. But what is it? women versus men on these dating apps? Isn’t it like 70% women or something crazy like that? It’s more men. It’s more men than women. Right? So I mean, I’m sorry, said like 70 to 70% man like 30% women is that is it

Evan 27:34
on an app like Tinder? Yes. That’s why I don’t really recommend Tinder. I think Tinder is kind of a dumpster fire. If I’m being honest. Tinder has got a lot of fake accounts. It’s got a lot of bots, it has way more men than it does women. So hey, listen, if you’re a good looking guy with your profile dialed in, you’re paying attention to this podcast, you learn how to do it the right way. Dude, maximize. It’s like if you’re running a business or brand, you should be on all aspects of social media maximize. But please, guys, you have to treat dating apps like passive income. Again, Business Reference here. If if you are solely focusing only on dating apps, and you never will talk to a woman in person before you meet her. Probably not ideal. Because the thing is, if you focus on just dating apps as a means to meeting women, you’re always going to be more disappointed than not, because women have more investment in you when they meet you in person and not meeting women in person is just because it’s an excuse, like you’re not going out and doing things not going out living that social life focusing on Hobbies, getting out there, like talking to people. And I know guys, it’s not easy. Like I’m not saying it’s easy. It’s a pain in the ass, especially when you’re busy, right? Like we’re busy guys, it’s not easy to just go out and want to talk to women. But the thing is, when a woman meets you in person versus when a woman matches with you on a dating app, her level of investment in you is so much higher than it is in a dating app. So again, exhaust all options be in all mediums be in all platforms, right to meet women. But don’t take it overly personally. If you’re not getting like five matches a day. It’s like you have to treat it as an as an option and an avenue but not the end all be all.

Michael 29:06
Yeah, so let’s cut let’s cover one more thing on these apps and online dating and that is something you you sort of mentioned in passing is scammers and bots and stuff. I feel like I’m pretty good detective in that regard, because I’ve never been scammed. But what are some things that guys should be looking for that indicate that someone’s definitely trying to scam you?

Evan 29:28
Yeah, um, if she has really old pictures, if she tries to add you on a form of like social media that’s like sometimes like I’ll see like some of these bots and scammers could ask people for Snapchat or something like that, where it’s like hey, add my snap and my Instagram you’re wasting your time. They’re probably just trying to get followers they’re trying to get like you to subscribe or they’re only fans or get money out of you or something like that. So the the way to weed out women that are not the real deal that will not go on a date with you is again going back to that like three to six messages back and forth. Roll asking for the number. And if she falls off the map after you asked for the number, she was just wasting your time. But to your point, like you said, you’ve never really fallen for any of the traps, the scams, the catfish, things like that. That’s why the FaceTime date is very important too, because you’re kind of qualifying her before you go on a real date. And then if maybe you don’t have like a quick video call FaceTime, whatever, if you don’t do that before the date, and she’s not willing to do that before the date. And why is that because women who are interested in you who are willing to take your lead, they don’t care. They’re like, Sure, call me on the phone, text me FaceTime me. Let’s meet up. This is great. And guys, stop dating women that are like stop dating women that are not with what the program you’re trying to build out? Like, why are you wasting your time with disagreeable women who don’t want to hang out with you? It doesn’t make sense. You know. So I find that a lot like you use you’ll scan through social media and you watch all these videos that women make about, here are the things a man must do on a first date. And if he doesn’t do this, he’s a bum. It’s like, we all know that you’re dating a guy that doesn’t do that, like Stop lying. Like the women that say I won’t accept any less than dinner the first date, stop lying. If if the most attractive guy in the world or like an athlete or guy that you followed on Instagram said, Hey, you want to get coffee, you would literally leave work and go get coffee with them. So don’t fall for it guys, like don’t fall for the shit you see in the Internet, whether they call you like law investment or a bomb if you’re not spending $200 In the first date.

Michael 31:20
Amen. self respect, my friend. So, sir. So all right, I have been somewhat unselfish. During this interview, I’ve been thinking about you fellas out there. Because I’m kind of sick of dating and dating apps are the devil. At least in my experience, I’ve had some successes, but mostly not so much. But I’m going to shift gears and be a little selfish. It could because you’ve mentioned and we’re going to shift away from from online dating and apps and stuff. You mentioned get out there and meet women. How the fuck do you do that? I’m 45 years old, I got two kids that I had 50% of the time. Where am I going? I always feel like if I see someone hot, or attractive, or whatever your description is in the grocery store. I feel like a creep approaching them as so I’ve never done it. Like, where the heck am I go on? How am I doing it? You give it all to me. Give me all your secrets right now.

Evan 32:11
Okay, the first thing we have to do is smash our limiting beliefs around the fact that women don’t want us to talk to them. That’s a complete lie. Women don’t want certain men who do it wrong to talk to them. Out of all the women I’ve ever coached, I’ve coached over 1000 guys have coached hundreds of women, every woman I’ve ever coached. If I said to her, if a guy approached you respectfully, and was not pushy was not creepy was not weird. Would you want to do that? Absolutely resounding yes. Do not listen to these idiots on the internet. The women on the internet that say Don’t approach me men are creeps. They’re single, they’re lonely, they’re bitter for a reason. That’s why because they say we don’t want men to approach us. Well, if you’re heterosexual you do want men to approach you, you just don’t like the way that men approach you. So again, it goes back to the sales thing. If I’m saying that you’re in business, and you’re negotiating with somebody, if they’re just really direct and terrible, and they don’t have your best interests in mind, you’re gonna be very put off by this person. But if somebody comes in and softens the beaches, like I mentioned earlier, like before, ask one more question. Hey, you might have asked random question. So instead of me going and asking an unsolicited question, I primed her to get excited about an interesting question about her. You see how I did that. So it’s about framing the way that you’re doing things. So if I’m approaching a woman in the gym, in the store, wherever the first thing that I’m going to say to her is like, Hey, listen, I know, it’s really random. Like, I hate to be this guy. But I do want to tell you, I think you’re attractive. You seem really cool. What’s your name? You just, like, get to the fucking point. They don’t I mean, like, guys are coming in, like, your shoes are nice. You know, I saw I’ve seen your round, you seem great. It’s like, Dude, get to the point be direct, you know, you think James Bond is gonna is gonna be like, Ah, I don’t know, you know, do you think she wants me to approach her? And again, listen, we’re not James Bond, you know, we’re not, we’re not all the 10 out of 10. Jacked and rich, it’s not about that. But it’s about doing it in a respectful way. You know, and they’re not necessarily asking for permission, per se. But it’s like, you have to be aware of what women are thinking when you approach them. Right. And the other thing is to this one’s an interesting one, I never recommend that guys, be just friends with women that they’re romantically interested in. I think you’re fighting a losing battle, if that’s the case, but in a big butt on this one, and this one goes to putting your ego to the side too. In the long run, if you build up a friend group, and women are in your friend group, and they respect you, they don’t need to, like be attract you. They need to want to date you. If they respect you, they will introduce you to other women. And this is something that a lot of men they refuse to do, because they think that if they’re friends with a woman that like they’re just they’re friendzone, or they’re pretending to be friends. The reality is if you can get any larger friend group of people who like to do a lot of different things, you start getting invited to things. The level of trust that exists by meeting someone through a friend is so much higher than on a dating app, or cold approaching a woman in person, so that you have to bite the bullet and be cordial or be friends with women who maybe were attracted to at one point, if you can get into like an enjoyable social circle, or you can get into a group of people that are genuinely fun to hang out with, you will meet a woman that trust you way more than you would meet a woman who doesn’t know you from anybody else in the planet. She doesn’t know you could be you could be dangerous, you could be the worst guy to be in relationship with ever you there could be something wrong with you. But if if you’ve been validated by that friend group, or she knows people who you know, it’s just way easier. But ultimately, my recommendation for a guy, if you’re approaching a woman in person is again, you have to kind of soften the beaches upfront, you have to be aware of the situation. I hate to be this guy in the gym. Just want to tell you seem cool, you’re really attractive, like, what’s your name? And some guys might want to say that they might not want to say the attractive thing. But that’s up to you. The reason why you’re approaching her is because you think she’s attractive. If you tell her that you Hey, you seem cool, I mean to you, and she’s not. She’s not reciprocating that she doesn’t like you. So the goal is to not necessarily get the number. The goal is to qualify, qualify whether she is interested or not not to get the number, like why would I want to ask a girl for a number who’s not interested? It’s stupid. So I want to I want to know that like, Hey, you seem cool. I’ve seen around here a lot. You know, I know this is random and awkward. I hate to be that guy. But like, you know, you seem you seem cool. You’re attractive, what’s your name? And then if she asks you, oh, blah, blah, blah, what’s your name, you know, she starts to ask things about you. That’s when you know that things are going well. And what I also recommend to guys, is, if you’re going to approach a woman, other than telling her she seems cool on your tractor, have one thing like in mind that you really want to talk about one specific thing, because you don’t want to just go over there and ramble. You want to talk about one specific thing, maybe get her feedback or opinion on it, and then get out you got to close the interaction after talking for like two or three minutes and say, Listen, it was really it was really nice meeting you. I know you’re working out right now I know you’re shopping right now. I know you’re out with your friends. So I don’t want to I don’t want to linger. I don’t want to bother you. Is it cool? If I get your number, and then you close for her number. So ultimately, the main reason why men fail with this is because they don’t do it. They don’t do it. That’s the That’s the reality. Most men fail because they don’t do it. Not necessarily because women don’t want them. It’s because they don’t do it. You know, when I coach guys will come to me and say, Man, I can’t meeting women. I’m like, how many women have you talked to in the last month on zero? Like, well, as your numbers are not too good right now, like, I know what your percentage of talking to a woman to get into a date would be like, you’re just not talking to anybody. So we have to kind of smash those limiting beliefs are on women not wanting to talk to us. There are so many women especially like, especially as guys get older, right? Because like we’re I’m coaching and you’re working with a lot of guys who’ve gone through divorce. We’re all a bit older than our early 20s anymore. Women who are in their 30s and 40s. And that age demographic, if they’re single, they are looking for a man. Yeah, sure. They are like heavily looking for a man like Don’t fool yourself. And if you go up and you like her and you approach her, she is going to be really grateful that you approach her if she said, you know, she’s not into it happens. That’s life. But you have to go out and put in the effort.

Michael 38:04
Yeah. Is that is that part of the to the expectation that it it’s a low? Low percentage of success, probably. And that’s okay. As long as you go into it, knowing that you still got to take shots, so to speak, like, don’t you kind of want to set yourself up to deal with the potential rejection.

Evan 38:25
Yeah, in going and go and wanting to have a conversation, like going going wanting to have a brief conversation and talking about the one topic that you’ve come up with in your mind that you want to talk about. And if it doesn’t work and don’t get the number, she will still be happy that you came up and talk to her respectfully, and maybe you gave her a compliment. And you might not be happy that you didn’t get the number. But it didn’t go abysmally wrong. Because you did it respectfully, like if I went up and I talked to a girl and she was very standoffish, I would probably be annoyed about that. But that’s just that’s a reflection of where she is in her life. Nobody’s going to be rude to a stranger, if they were respectful to them, Unless there’s something wrong with them, like unless they’re having a bad day. And that’s again, like, cool, I don’t want to say you, you’re rude. Like, I again, I have qualified or disqualified. So we as men, we got to take it back. Like we have to take some of the power back and get the ball back in our court. Because most men are not doing the things we’re talking about now. So if you can flip it, and you can start to be a little bit more bold and do these things like you will meet much better women than just only dating the women who are willing to message you back on a dating app. Because again, like women can definitely shoot above their attraction number on dating apps, because there are a lot of guys out there that only want to hook up. And those guys will lower their standards a little bit just to hook up. So keep in mind that dating apps are always gonna be more competitive, right? You meet a girl in person, she’s got a lot of investment in you. Very true.

Michael 39:47
Oh, and I appreciate you doing this. I hope you guys get a lot from it. I certainly have and, and will try to apply some of it, even though it’s kind of put my end Jeez elsewhere, but it wouldn’t be terrible to find myself in another relationship. It’s sometime before I put the pasture. So I’ll definitely listen to this one myself, which I rarely do but, but thank you seriously for doing this. As you know, the last question I’ll ask everybody is, what words of wisdom would you impart to a man who has just started his divorce process?

Evan 40:28
I would say that you can’t go back and you can’t control the past, you can’t change things that have already happened. But the only thing you can do is take this as a learning opportunity to start to fix yourself and work on yourself. But with that said, like you are not broken like, you are a person with a lot to offer. And ultimately, the worst thing we can do is not take very difficult times as a learning lesson, right? Because when things are going really great in your life, and things are easy, and they’re flowing, and they’re great, we’re not really reflecting necessarily on why they’re so great. We’re only we’re only kind of critiquing our situation when things are going wrong. So if you understand that people grow, and they develop, when things are really difficult, understand that this is probably one of the most difficult times in your life that you’re going through. So you have to use it as a learning experience. And you have to understand not just why it happened, but what you can do to kind of improve in the future. And to take a little bit more control and ownership of your life to not just prevent those things from happening in the future. But to really associate yourself with a woman or women that are on the same page as you that take your feelings into account that understand that you are valuable to whatever you’re bringing to the equation. And really just use this as a learning experience. Because I think it would be a big mistake to only be really upset about it, but not actually change anything. Because we have to look in the mirror and we have to see what we could change as men and really just you know, starting to optimize your health, your mental health, and your finances too. And just taking ownership of what you can control in your life and becoming a better version of yourself.

Michael 42:01
Yeah, amen. ownerships a big one. For me, I think that’s what defines a man is his ability to take ownership of his life. Again, thank you so much for doing this. How can people find you what’s the best way to get in touch with Evan?

Evan 42:13
Yeah, so you can just search performance potential on YouTube on Instagram on Tik Tok, most of my followers on Tiktok just because I put a lot of short form content on there. I’ve got about three longer videos up right now at the time of us filming this, this podcast on YouTube. And I’ve got 15 more that are edited and posting twice a week for the next two months. And we’re gonna see how the how the YouTube algorithm pans out. But I think it’d be good to get this information and content in front of guys. It’s more like long form content. Because you know, these 30 to 52nd sound bites on Instagram rails and tick tock, they’re helpful, but I think it’s important to dive more in, you know, on the nuances of everything too. So I would say anywhere YouTube Tiktok Instagram, just search performance potential, or you can go to performance potential.co If you want to be coached by me.

Michael 43:01
Gotcha. Oh, and I want to take this, before we wrap up just to say that Evan and I are going to be working together. We’re in the midst of finalizing the creation of a Facebook group that will essentially be a subgroup of the divorce support for man group on Facebook. So probably when this launches, that group will launch as well. And you guys can join and ask me questions and, and reach out to him and work with him and hire him. So again, I want to thank you for doing this. I thank you for for being open and honest and connecting with me and working with me to help these guys get to their next best relationship. I appreciate it.

Evan 43:39
Yeah, man. My pleasure. Take care.

Episode 82 – Dating For The Divorced Man – Dating Coach Evan Davis

https://www.risingphoenixpodcast.com

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