Episode 92 - Transcript - Real Men Real Stories Series - Andrew - He Filed - Has Children

By Michael Rhodes | January 6, 2023

This is a transcription of Episode 92.  The transcription was done by software, apologies for anything that seems out of whack. A link to the episode is below.

Michael 0:00
Joining me today is Andrew elenberg. Andrew is the single father who ended up winning custody sole custody of his daughter, and we’re gonna talk about that today. So, Andrew, let’s start at the beginning. Where and when did you meet your, your ex? How old were you? And how old was she? And how soon after that, did you guys end up getting married?

Andrew 0:45
Sure. So we actually met through friends. I was I believe I was about 20. So she was 19. We’re right about the same age. You know, kind of friends just hung out. For a few years. When we were when I was 23, we decided we kind of quickly moved in together because we had known each other for so long. And kinda, I guess there was a trust there some kind of connection that we shared. And we decided very quickly, after about two weeks or so of living together, that we were going to get married. And I thought, you know, because I had known this person for a while they didn’t seem seem pretty normal seemed like, you know, I felt like I was taking the steps in the direction of becoming an adult was was in my head what I was doing. So that that lasted for, you know, we it was it was great at first, you know, we had a we started a business together. We, you know, we had our own house, you know, we kind of move really quick but something changed. I’m not sure what exactly happened. There’s like a, the controlling part, just always need to know where I’m at when I’m doing who I’m with. So I kind of we kind of split off. We didn’t talk to each other for probably two or three years. She had moved out of state. I had made plans to move I sold my house, get rid of all my things. And we ended up talking and that’s where I ended up going. I moved. I moved to where she was almost maybe a month and a half after I got down there. She found out she was pregnant. No, it was not. It was my kid. I’m sorry. Yeah, no,

Michael 2:55
no, it’s okay. So were you married when she left?

Andrew 2:59
Yeah, so we got married when I was 23. And when we got married, we split up and kind of just about about a year, almost almost a year. After we got married. She packed up and moved away. I didn’t hear from her. Wow. All of a sudden, you know, all of a sudden she had I never changed numbers. She started messaging me occasionally. And then we started having phone conversations. And you know, I didn’t really have a lot going on here where I was. So this is I felt like that that was that was my call. And again, we’re doing the adult thing. I’m trying to make it work.

Michael 3:41
Yeah. So did you guys ever have a conversation about why she laughed or? Yeah, I

Andrew 3:47
mean, it was it was mutual. We just didn’t. I didn’t I couldn’t deal with the the cause the interrogations, basically the you know, needing to know what I’m doing every second of the day. And you know, in now, I understand is because she was doing things behind my back and trying to make sure that you know, she wasn’t she wasn’t about get caught. Yeah, yeah. That’s what it really boils down to.

Michael 4:19
Yeah, for sure. That’s that’s all that’s a projection at its finest. Okay, so you kind of got tired of it. You guys went your separate ways. She she moved out of state. You said it was about a year later that you you ended up sort of reconciling is that that’s the case.

Andrew 4:35
So it was actually it was actually about three years later. Oh, wow. So yeah, so we didn’t speak for a few years. And then whenever we started communicating, we just decided, hey, you know, let’s give it a shot. We’re still married. We still never get divorced. It is It just never went through. So after I got down there, you know, I quickly realized, you know, that it was she had not grown, you know, the growth that she was portraying, closes not, you know, I wasn’t seeing it. It was kind of already too late, she had told me she was pregnant. And we had already actually started talking about, you know, going our separate ways, again, not, you know, only, you know, a month and a half into it. So I think it was about two weeks to the day that I found out, she was pregnant, I actually was in a bad motorcycle wreck, somebody pulled up in front of me. And, you know, I couldn’t walk for almost a year. So, while I’m there, you know, I gotta ventilator to, I can’t do anything, I’m strapped down, I get, you know, I get served divorce papers, while I’m in the hospital, like, she sends them there to serve me. And I’m, like, you know, I’m trying to figure out how to do all this stuff, my family had to drive, you know, two states away, you know, it’s like a nine hour drive, just to come get my things to, you know, put up for me. She actually came to the hospital while I was there, and just just showed up and just start taking all my stuff. And she got the keys to the storage unit, just, you know, took basically just took what she wanted. And so, I ended up making it down here with my family. They came and got me after I was able to leave the hospital, and I was able to convince her, you know, because we’re having a kid together, to come back to, you know, where we initially got together. I ended up having to pay for, you know, which I didn’t mind, you know, paying for everything and paying for it to move. But, you know, there was always you know, where’s your money you’re getting, you know, I constantly hear in the chatter about it. Yeah. So, you know, I kind of just dealt with it, I kind of just, you know, gave a little bit of money to make sure you know, to make sure it was taking care of Sure. But it is, I didn’t really get to talk to her a lot. The closer you get to having the baby, the less I heard from her. And, and then, you know, the day she was actually had the baby, she called me she’s like, look, this time, let’s go. And maybe a week after that she didn’t want anything to do with me. Wouldn’t wouldn’t let me see the kid. She actually saw me a few weeks later in town. And I was I had somebody else in the car, it was another lady in the car with me. And when I got out of my car, didn’t think anything about it. I see my wife walking on the other side of my car and you know, yanks is this this woman out of my car, and you know, is fifth Biden in a parking lot. And there’s a cop car right beside us and she just, you know, doesn’t care. You know, she is able to attack her and get a few swings at me and we actually for they, even though I was being completely calm, never yield never never hollered, you know, I still ended up going to deal with or, you know, just, it seemed like a principle more than anything, you know, they dropped the charge later, but I still had to go to jail, I had to make plans. My she had a daughter in the car, you know, in her car, across the street, you know, July, the car is now running like these. So as soon as you know, I go to court. And, you know, because we have to, you know, we’re both in handcuffs in the courtroom. And the judge is looking at me telling me that I need to you know, unprovoked just telling me that I need to to give my kid over that the Moms always best and

Michael 9:20
that was this a male or female judge

Andrew 9:22
that this this was a male this time? Yeah, this was he was basically just given finds out. Yeah. So

Michael 9:33
was this was this but this was a criminal judges wasn’t a family law. Judge right. Because you were going out? Yeah. Okay.

Andrew 9:39
And yeah, this is a criminal judge. So, you know, after she finally did get out, you know, because I had I had my daughter here because she doesn’t have any, any family here. And, you know, I just I didn’t I didn’t make a fuss. I just let her come pick her up. And two days Later she was gone, you know could didn’t know where she was didn’t know what in hell or things were gone. She had moved back to where she was in, you know, two states away again. Oh, wow. So, you know, change numbers changed, you know, dropped everything I kept. I spent tons of money just in process servers, and you know, like, investigate trying to figure out where she was. And once she did finally messaged me, she started sending me fake addresses and did some bizarre stuff, you know, just just trying to throw me off her trail, I guess.

Michael 10:32
Now, at any point, I’m gonna I’m just gonna ask this. At any point. Did you ever go What the fuck was I thinking? Because I’m wondering, What the fuck are you thinking man?

Andrew 10:43
Yeah, man. It’s, I don’t know. I guess I just thought that, you know, because the person that I met. Yeah, was it the person that it is now? It just seemed like, yeah, I don’t know if you know, that switch, went off her head and said, you know, hey, I got him now. Like, I can do whatever I want.

Michael 11:04
I think probably part of it. Yeah, and I’m,

Andrew 11:07
you know, at the time, you know, I’m 23 I’m gonna double I’m good. I’m just looking for everything to fall together.

Michael 11:17
Forgive me, I forget 23 You know, you don’t know what the fuck you’re doing. You don’t know what you’re doing at 23 Shit. It takes I don’t even know 30 Maybe I don’t know. Alright, so then she disappears again so and she took the kid this time now. When this other place two states away was their family for her. They’re like what was the pole to make her it? Was it another dude, I not that it really matters, but I’m just curious as sure why that, that there.

Andrew 11:42
She just had a few friends down there. It’s there was no real ties. Just she just knew a couple people. And she was trying to get as far away as possible. And that was, you know, that kind of became a theme for her found out you know that? You know, finding a single friend just to run to to escape reality in the world. You know this.

Michael 12:05
So so she moves away again, and then you have to do your best to find her What? What happened after that? Did you? I mean, obviously you did. But what what was next in that story? Did you get her back? To come back? Or did you have to go get the daughter how to I don’t know, it is a daughter. Right? If I remember correctly, you have a daughter?

Andrew 12:24
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So what ended up happening was I finally was able to get her served. You know, the judge, you know, we had a basically an emergency order, or I could get every other weekend where we had to meet halfway. And I would pick her up. And from that very first time, you know, she almost as soon as I picked her up, the mom was telling me you know this isn’t going to work. You just need to bring her back or you just need keeper. I’m just very extreme. You know, it was it was one of the other it couldn’t we couldn’t No, there was no real way to work together. And I tried and tried and tried but I was able to get her I think that the next night she called me and she said that she was already here in town. She lived all her things and was just staying in a parking lot right down the street from my house um I was able to convince her to go stay with some family she she did go get her things eventually. And I was able to you know basically fund all that for her you know coming back and getting a place started and you know, she is let her come stay with me some until you know everything until she got a place it kind of like that’s that’s where you know that part of you know, I got him now. All right, just just constant I need money I need money any money was you know, I’ve never I’ve never had a problem with helping to provide for my daughter. But you know when you need money after all your bills are paid you got food and everything you’re still eating $300 Just because you know it’s just it’s tough to deal with

Michael 14:32
Sure. Yeah, I imagine it’s frustrating. I mean, I had to pay the but it goes to the system and even that is gonna be frustrating if she brings up anything about money. So let me back up a little bit. You You eventually filed for custody. That’s how you ended up getting the the every other weekend thing was is that right? Like you you went to the courthouse and you filed?

Andrew 14:58
Yeah, so I filed for Emergency custody. I actually obtained a lawyer. I’m sorry, I missed that part.

Michael 15:05
No, that’s okay. It Believe me, I’m sure we’re gonna jump around. What I’m curious what motivated you to do that like what I mean, obviously, you had a kid but but to actually some people will just sit and pitch and pitch and moan about it not actually doing anything. So what what made you decide to bucket I’m getting a lawyer?

Andrew 15:26
Well, I actually mean, I feel like a lot of it has to do with my, my support system, I have had an incredible support system, my family is just great. You know, I have I have friends that are are willing to listen to me, and give me their honest opinion. And, you know, the best try not to be biased. You know, obviously, my family has a little bit of bias, but it did help to, you know, just to help keep me going that way. And, you know, I wanted to, from from almost day one I wanted to give up. So, that was always, you know, right there. It never really left me even, you know, weeks up until the end of it. You know, that feeling just is haunting. So I get it.

Michael 16:12
So did you fight you said you filed for emergency custody? Did you file for full custody or just what

Andrew 16:18
we’re, I’ve always always maintained that 5050 was was what I was going for. I made sure my attorney understood that I’m not trying to you know, just take her away from home forever that that was a that was never Makayla.

Michael 16:33
And so Okay, so she could she came back. What what did you so she lived with you for a while, and then she got her own place? What was custody at that point, when after she came back?

Andrew 16:45
It was it was pretty lacs whenever she came back, usually after, like us a severe predicament, I guess it would kind of it would kind of be easy for for, you know, a week sometimes two. But for for for that period, it was you know, I would have her at least 50% of the time, if not more. And then you know, she would win, because she was so close, even after she got her own place. If she was wanting to go do something, you know, she would just call me. I was able to I would always watch her anytime, you know, I was always willing to do what I needed to do.

Michael 17:27
And how old was she at that point and your daughter?

Andrew 17:31
So that point, she was about six months old? Oh,

Michael 17:35
wow. Okay. So then, yeah, what what? What was what was the next predicament? Like that wording that in the story? What what came up next? So she’s six months old. She’s sort of in or out of her life a little bit. What was what was the next step?

Andrew 17:56
So it kind of one another situation came up, which was basically, I wasn’t doing exactly what was what was asked to me, whether it be respond to a question a certain way, or do some kind of activity with my kid, you know, it was a problem. And it was brought up many times that I wasn’t willing to work with her. So she felt like she should just keep her away. I just didn’t, I didn’t feel like it. It was right. It didn’t make sense to me. So, you know, I asked my lawyer about it. He said, You know, we need to push forward the next steps you need to give this woman away from you know, it’s very toxic, very, like, it’s gonna cause me a lot of problems later on, if I don’t do something about it now. So that’s, that’s what I chose to do. I chose to push for, you know, actual 5050 Instead of this, you know, every other weekend arrangement, which was basically what I had at the moment, at that time. Is this what I had on on paper. That’s what Yeah, on paper from, you know, from the court from the initial emergency hearing.

Michael 19:10
Yeah. And did you during this timeframe? Aye. Aye. Aye. I, I know I personally recommend this to everybody because it’s been recommended to me document everything. Were you documenting all the shenanigans that were going on with her?

Andrew 19:24
Sure, I have. I have notebooks. My family has notebooks, you know, everybody that was involved because that was that’s awesome. Yeah, I was with you know, people and, you know, my, my attorney he has, it’s a stacking. It’s just a huge stack of stuff that I turned in, you know. I hear people you know, there were benefits to it. But it seemed like when I was writing up writing that stuff and constantly reading over it, it was really difficult for me to to To address personal things in my life, because I was so obsessed about making sure that I was doing everything I need to do make sure everything was was written down accounted for. But it definitely helped a lot to have that information available to me at anytime.

Michael 20:17
Yeah, for sure. Okay, so then you so you’ve filed again, is that is that what happened? You filed again for actual 5050?

Andrew 20:24
Yeah, yeah. So we were the initial, you know, the court system is very long and very drawn out, it takes months to get anything done that emergency here and took about a month just to get in front of a judge. So it was we still had, I’m not sure it’ll have the dates in front of me. But I’m thinking, I’m thinking it was about five months after, after she actually came back after that initial hearing that we were able to get back in front of the judge, you know, and I’ll you know, because the switches was so rapid from, you know, everything’s great. Everything’s wonderful to you should never see this kid again. Right? It happens so frequently. And I felt like I was being the having to convince her, you know, that I’m okay. Everything’s good. Right, right. But yeah, once once did go back, we were able to, you know, to get an actual 5050 agreement, because, you know, for the most part, I was always there. I was providing I was taking care of everything. So we had a I don’t know, we had it on paper, but it really doesn’t mean anything. Yeah.

Michael 21:45
Yeah. So so she wasn’t she, she pretty much ignored it anyway. But so did anything change at all that or just the fact that you had a paper that said, you should you have, you’re going, you’re entitled to 5050 or whatever,

Andrew 21:59
after the initial 5050 kind of it seemed like it intensified everything. Once I had this, you know, this this order from a judge. And I tried to, to use it to my advantage. You know, it just caused much more backlash, you know, the police started getting involved a lot of false TSS allegations,

Michael 22:28
really, so this all comes from from her that right?

Andrew 22:31
Yeah, yeah. And she had no problem telling me that she was doing it, she would let me know, before she would go do it that, you know, hey, I’m going to do this, Mike, I feel like my kid is being assaulted. I feel like, you know, it’s just helpful height all the time, it was always something, you know, is always way out of left field.

Michael 22:55
And how did I just out of curiosity, how did the cops mean, it sounds like eventually, they probably got to know you pretty well. Like, how did they deal with like, did they start saying, yeah, here we are, again, sorry, man, or where they are? Like, were they very accusatory and like, looking for shit on you that they believe her? I guess the question.

Andrew 23:12
In initially, the first few times. They were very insistent that I do exactly what she say, regardless of what the court orders say. Really? And yeah. And like, for example, there were there were many times where, you know, for documentation, if if, if she’s not going to allow me to have my kid of my Tom, I have to file a police report. That’s the only thing that will hold up in court, they’ve actually called the police and they come out there and make a report and have to go get it. So in doing that, you know, that’s how I found out it really doesn’t matter what the court order says, if, if she had, you know, the child, they weren’t gonna push it, they were just gonna tell me that I just need to let things be. But when they come to my home, you know, and tell me the same thing because she’s obviously going through something that, you know, is, in my opinion, not not good for, you know, a one year old to be around. They basically, you know, start threatening, you know, disturbance of the peace, you know, just ridiculous. You know, basically just put me in jail overnight so that she would get the kid back. Wow. And that happened. That happened a few times, you know, when it first started.

Michael 24:37
So what did your lawyer say about all that?

Andrew 24:44
Basically, what what he told me many times, you know, even up until the end, when when I kept complaining about what the police were doing, what they were saying was that the cops don’t know the law. They don’t they just know how to enforce laws. up, and or I guess just how to how to make you stop? Or do we do what they want? Yeah, it kind of I mean, that’s, that’s really what it was, it was the mom is allowed to, you know, streaming and holler at them. And, you know, act as she pleases. But no matter how calm I am, I still have to do what she says. I mean, that kind of was was the story of my life for three years, you know, DSS constantly coming through.

Michael 25:40
Now, did you ever counter that? And, and not not be as petty? And like, I’m gonna call the cops? But did you? Did you have concerns about her your child safety at with her mother? And did you do anything? Like she did I call Child Services and all that kind of shit?

Andrew 25:56
Sure. Um, so I did. My mom actually did one of the neighbors, one of her neighbors contacted me one night and said, Look, you need to come over here right now. And I went over there. And they’re just telling me all these stories, and, you know, I had never talked to these people before, but they, you know, they decided to contact me. And were, were giving me, you know, I’m making me listen to audio snippets of the conversations that they’re having with this woman, you know, she’s intoxicated and passed out in her car, with with the child in the backseat in the summertime. So, you know, out of fear, I didn’t want to, I guess, push against her, my mom actually called. And, you know, that basically went nowhere. But I mean, it’s, it’s kind of, you know, every, every single time that she went to Child Protective Services, you know, they will come out and like you said, with the police, they would come out and say, Look, we’re sorry, like, we know that you get calls all the time. But we’ll have to follow through with every one of them. I don’t know, that’s just, you know, and at times, I would have to DSS calm. And then, if they didn’t do anything, which they never did, because you know, nothing was going on. It was just, it’s the habit of my head. Sometimes investigators will come and start their own investigation and say that somebody came in and gave a complaint. Yeah. That’s just the way it was, for a long time, you know, for three years.

Michael 27:57
Geez. So what led you to finally push for full custody?

Andrew 28:04
So one night, it was actually November 2020. She called me I was at work. And then she called my mom and said that Some, somebody’s got to come get this kid at Toms shoes to somebody’s gotta come get their kid. And I just can’t do it anymore. I just, I can’t, and had all her things on the side of the road, like everything from her room on the side of the road. And that’s what kind of, I guess made me switch gears with what was going on. I never actually pushed for full custody. But that’s when I started pushing for primary. And, you know, that was given to me pretty quick, because of the circumstances. But as soon as. So like I said, that was November and December. That’s when I had a DSS case and an investigator at my house. So it was any time that that was, you know, basically given her for long periods of time, if it was more, if it was out of the confines of what the court order said, then, you know, I could pretty much guarantee that there’s going to be some kind of, you know, backlash coming my way. That’s just the way it always was. That’s that’s what made me start pushing for primary at the time. I never actually I didn’t start pushing for sole custody until let’s see, it’s been nine months ago now. Or I’m sorry, it’s been 11 months ago now and in January beginning of this year. She hadn’t seen our kid and in like five or six weeks And she just showed up to daycare and took her disappeared with her. It took me like, it took me about, it took me about a week and a half to find her. I finally did. I finally got her served. And the judge actually made an emergency hearing to give me temporary sole custody and gave me you know, gave the police permission to, like, physically take her if necessary. Wow. So, with that, she you know, whenever we actually went, you know, she didn’t want to respond, she didn’t wanna answer the door. What ended up happening was she was trying to fight the police and trying to push them away. And you know, the cops had to run my daughter over to me, it was like, I’ll never forget, it was it just starts snowing. It was real, real cold. And she wasn’t wearing hardly any clothes. Man. So actually missed apart I’m sorry, no worries. So in, in in 2020. In C, it was February, actually, in February of 2020. It was kind of the same ordeal she had said she needs to go take care of something. You know, she was gone for about two weeks. I hadn’t really heard from her. And she started messaging me saying she wanted her right now she’s got to come get her right now. And I said, look, it’s late, you know, let’s let’s we can work it out. Now let’s let’s do something in the morning, or, you know, something like that, just not right now. Like it’s already late. You know, at the town, my kid, this was, this was actually right after the November incident. So she put all her stuff on the side of the road. And then the following February, she is showing up at my house, run around the house beaten on all the doors. And then she decides to start busting out my Windows cheese. You know, and I just grabbed my kid. And you know, my, there was somebody here and they immediately called 911. I didn’t you know, I just grabbed my kid and went to the back bedroom. I didn’t know what to do. You know, I hear the I hear the door getting busted in. I’m just freaking out. I don’t know what to do. Like, I know if I touch this woman all I’m going to jail to know if I do anything. It doesn’t matter if she’s trying to kill me. I’m like, that’s it for me. And you know, at the same time, what am I gonna do about my kid? So she comes in, like she bust in the room. You know, she immediately just pushed me out of the way and grabbed the kid and took off out the door. In our brain almost like right behind her. She ran into the neighbor’s house, which apparently she had got dropped off or something. I don’t know. When the police get there, they tell me that she’s claiming that I busted out the window that I brought the kid. You know, in February, I took the kid outside and just a diaper. And that, if I don’t have any proof that she did it, they’re just gonna let her go with my kid. So luckily, one of my neighbors finally came up and you know, let them know hey, yeah, look, this isn’t the first time she’s done something like this. That was her I saw her doing it. So she ended up going to jail. It I had a I actually was able to get a restraining order. I was able to get a temporary custody agreement that lasted about three months, all her charges got dropped. Um, the judge whenever we did go back, told me that I was using the court using the restraining order to alienate the child and that I needed to figure out what I was going to do to make it work and that it was my responsibility. And you know, I’m baffled you know, my attorneys looking at me like I don’t even know and you know, it just it never We’re really moved from that point, like I said that we’ve been February of 2020, it took four months, from initially getting her to actually have another hearing because of COVID. They didn’t know what to do, they didn’t know, you know, when we’re even going to be able to go to court, my mom attorney to say days, like, this is good, this is gonna help you, you know, because we’re not going to be able to do anything, you’re gonna have her the whole time. She’s not allowed to mom’s not allowed around us. And, you know, it seemed like mom was kind of going off the deep end with, you know, her personal thing she had going on. So, you know, after that it went, it went right back to the way it was, you know, she was able to do something extreme like that, you know, just hold off for a month or two and everything, everything would go right back to the way it was, you know, her keeping the kid away, or moving out of town for a few days or weeks or whatever. There was nothing really I could do about it.

Michael 36:06
I just I just, I understand some ways, why the system behaves the way that it does. One, I think there’s so many fucking people in so many problems, and there’s probably not enough judges and enough fucking courthouses. I get that too. You know, men don’t have a great track record, historically, when you look at domestic violence, and those kinds of numbers and, and, you know, murders of spouse and shit. I mean, we have to we have to look at it. I at least in my view, we have to look at it in a in a logical, factual kind of way. But, but when there is clear fucking evidence, I’m baffled that it’s so hard. I mean, how could anyone with any fucking sense not look at this and go? Well, this woman’s fucking crazy sorry to say, but like, maybe they wouldn’t say that. Maybe I shouldn’t say that. But there are some issues here. Clearly, it’s better for them, for the child to be with father. But they didn’t say that. And it baffles me. They gave her so many so many chances that I just and it’s the crazy. I don’t know if it’s crazy. Another crazy part, or baffling part is it’s a male judge. So there’s, you know, I would think he would would maybe he didn’t maybe he wasn’t a father. Maybe he didn’t want to be a father shit. I don’t know. But you would think he would side with the Father. I mean, especially based on the evidence. I just, it baffled me, but I will say, and we’re gonna get to this. You know, you didn’t you didn’t stop fighting. And eventually you went out. So so that was February of 2020. When that happened, what what was I think you mentioned? It was it was not until well, what was it? What was the neck when and what was the next step after that February incident?

Andrew 38:10
Yeah, so, um, like I said, I had had sole custody all the time. I had a restraining order. Yeah. And then about about four months later, I believe we that this one went back to the same the same judge. I’m sorry, this the this just was a female judge. Okay. And, yeah, this time it switched. It, you know, because the duration of this, this case, you know, it’s we switched judges several times.

Michael 38:41
So this is the judge that said, you were using the restraining order to know that she was this judge knew at that point, so the case or was that her first go around in that, from that February incident?

Andrew 38:53
Well, yeah, this was this was the first time that I had, you know, well, she actually she did the initial emergency here and after she broke into the home, right, that was the same judge. Okay, so she decided that, you know, I need to make it work setup, counseling, decided that, you know, we’re gonna stick with the same 5050 schedule, and that’s, that’s, that’s why I said it went this it seemed like the mom knew, right, then you can do, she can do whatever she wants, and I have to just eat it. And that’s, that’s, that’s what I’m gonna have to do. And, you know, that that was obvious to the entire thing, even until the very last month or very last minute in court. Like I was just, like, it just seemed like the judge was fighting herself. And she decides that you know, we should do counseling, we should give it a shot. And you know, I do it, you know, we go to counseling Every single counseling session we go to this woman is basically screaming and telling this other, you know, this counselor that, you know, I’m the problem that I don’t listen and I won’t work together. You know, and I didn’t basically I just sit there, I didn’t really talk much. I didn’t really get to say a lot, you know, which was fine. Yeah. But, um, you know, no real resolution, she ended up giving up, just stop showing up.

It was it was made maybe two or three months of that went by, and she started pushing again started, you know, really keeping her away started the DSS investigations. So the next time we go to court, which was about four months after this last one, they decide that I’m sorry, I’m kind of getting myself twisted up. I’m trying to keep the story. I keep wanting to jump around.

Michael 41:09
It’s all good. It’s, there’s a lot going on. I get it. No worries.

Andrew 41:13
So let’s see. She clicked on the counseling.

Michael 41:20
So she had corridor counseling. Yeah. Was that with you? And her and you and her daughter? Or was it just her? Like,

Andrew 41:29
it was just the two of us? Okay. Yeah. The daughter has never been involved with any kind of counseling or, and she’s, she’s four now, but she hasn’t. She was too young to do anything like that was was, you know, what we were told.

Michael 41:44
Yeah. So she stopped showing up the counseling as well, and, and calling causing all the issues all at the same time, sort of in that same timeframe. Right.

Andrew 41:55
Yeah, absolutely. Um, the only thing that happened the next time I went to court, they added, you know, some little stipulations, like, we were not allowed to use third party. Four, basically, accusations like we weren’t allowed, we’re not supposed to go to Child Protective Services. This isn’t a court order.

Michael 42:19
And that was more for her. So she would stop.

Andrew 42:22
Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, because my, my, my attorney, you know, pushed her that every time that she wouldn’t be able to, you know, frivolously use, you know, such a service. It never helped, you know, even I had, she actually made two reports in July of this year. You know, what, you know, in the same month, maybe two reports, just to try to push it because, you know, that was we were coming up on our, our final hearing. So 2021 went up, that’s, that’s where she really started kind of not showing up a lot, or only showing up to cause chaos. She obviously got into, to doing some kind of drugs had started making a lot of really poor life decisions. And that was kind of showing a lot in her. Her appearances and all that. She actually had to he ended up going to a psych ward, you know, to get to get help, you know, which I had had started really, you know, anytime I talk to her, you know, just go get help get help, go get help, like, I see it, I get it. But it kind of it kind of went nowhere, she would stay for a few days, or maybe two weeks and come right back, say I’m better. And, you know, we’re right back at it. And there was a lot of a lot of silence as far as I kind of gave up on court. I felt like it wasn’t it wasn’t going anywhere. I quit talking to my attorney about it. It just it seemed pointless. I try my best just to let her see or, you know, with reasonable stipulations, but it’s still in the trust. The trust could never be regained. Yeah, she she couldn’t let go of the idea that I was just trying to keep her daughter away. And no matter how hard I tried, and because I really, I really pushed for a long time to do 50 Pig, you know, 5050 to be you know, parentless gelled together because I know she needs both sides. She needs her dad and her mom, not just me. I never wanted to what like I said in the end of in December, right before Christmas. I’m sorry, I missed another one. When she went when she did go to in November after she, she put all her stuff on the side of the road and 2020 She actually she actually did go to get assessed at the hospital. And while she was there, she was making allegations to them about me. So they actually Diaz, Child Protective Services actually came to my house and took my daughter on December 16, it was right before Christmas. You know, in the cops, you know, they were they were sending another word, you could tell they had empathy for me. They were telling me Look, man, I get it. Dude, I don’t. I know, this isn’t happening. This isn’t right. This isn’t fair. I said, you know, just just keep doing just keep doing what you’re doing. I promise you, it’s gonna get better. Yeah. Yeah, hurt those hard to deal with.

Michael 46:03
I can imagine Did you believe him? That was gonna get better.

Andrew 46:06
I gave me hope. I don’t, I don’t, I’m not sure why. But you know, just just feeling like I had, you know, those people that I felt like were, you know, being used to attack me, I felt like they, you know, they were if she wanted something, they would do whatever they could to try to try to get that from me. And, you know, now I’m starting to see the switch. Now I’m starting to see, you know, that they’re coming to my house, often they know what’s going on now.

Michael 46:39
Yeah. So, so that was December. So she got taken what what happened at that point?

Andrew 46:46
Um, so. So mom was, was using that saying that, that I had an open DSS investigation to try to get, you know, my time taken away again, you know, after she had then, you know, you know, gave rights away. Right. That, you know, like I said that that was the theme of what was happening. And she would, she would give up and go do what she wanted to do. And then when she was done with that, it was, you know, attack me, he tried to get me to cower and run away.

Michael 47:18
So after that she was taken, did you get her back shortly after? Or what was the I mean, you said was right before Christmas, hopefully. I mean, that was that resolved fairly quickly, or how did that?

Andrew 47:32
Well, they told me, whenever they came and got her that it was going to take at least that it would take up to three months before they would make a decision. Luckily, it only took about a month or close to about a month and a half was extra long it took but my mom where my mom actually came over and she was able to, you know, immediately take my kid with her.

Michael 47:58
Good thank god. Okay.

Andrew 47:59
Yeah, I wasn’t, I wasn’t, I was only allowed to see her that day, like only a few times a week like it, you know, it was crazy stipulations. And at the same time, my mom is having to also do this with, you know, my ex, boy, and, you know, she’s really, you know, she had, you know, had to deal with her in the past, but now she’s really in the mix. You know, she’s, she’s right there. So that’s when allegations started happening to her house, you know, she starts saying that, you know, my, my grandma that’s, you know, almost 80 years old is molesting my daughter, or my mom’s friend that comes over sometimes is, you know, it’s just it was it was pretty constant, you know, it was getting hit from every angles, no matter what I said, no matter what I did, you know, I never did make a difference, you know, to the courts or to DSS Child Protective Services, or

Michael 49:02
so what, at that point, month and a half ish later or whatever, you you get her back then and things go sort of back to

Andrew 49:11
normal, sort of back to 5050 again, and

Michael 49:14
then. So that was December of 2020. I think he said, so then what was what was the next next step and a timeline.

Andrew 49:24
So, like I said, that was in at the end of January, that’s where things kind of like, of 2021 that’s where things kind of went, you know, 5050 on paper, but it didn’t really matter. And like I said, that’s, that’s when I kind of that’s why I kind of gave up, you know, are kind of with the court system, you know, I kept trying, I kept fighting and I kept trying to do my best to be in be in my kid’s life, but really the only time that I was allowed to is was when she didn’t want to or hadn’t Something going on that would allow me time with her.

Michael 50:06
Gotcha. So what was what came next after after that? Like, what triggered? I mean, you’re obviously you’re not, you’re not at that place anymore. So what what was the next? Did you file for more custody? Or? How did you get to where you’re where you are now from from that point?

Andrew 50:26
Sure. So, um, that 2021 was was mostly her either want her for, you know, her everyday all the time or not wanting anything to do with her, that kind of just went on, like I said, I basically allowed that to go on all year for 2021 I just kind of deal with it, because I felt like I was just wasting money. I felt like, you know, paying my attorney $1,000 to walk into a room and say things I felt like I could have said, you know, which, you know, enhance, like, I’m not an attorney, I don’t know. But, you know, I couldn’t help but feel like, you know, I could have done a better job and got, you know, what I needed or whatever. But actually didn’t. Whenever I started getting death threats every day, like, things such as this, I got a gun is just for you, I’m gonna murder you. If if you can’t close to me or my child. You did, I’m gonna kill you. I’m gonna shoot you, you know, just it was it was it was constant like I was getting, like, actually went to the police station, and show it on there. Again, man, that’s That’s freedom of speech. I took it to, you know, my attorney. And he’s like, Well, we can try, we can see, we took him in front of a judge, a male judge. And he threatened me with jail, and said that I was fabricating these messages, and pictures, and you know, things like that. Because the mom was changing phone numbers. Every every month, at least constantly. So I had no way to prove it. And even even when I tried to look back, I was able to subpoena the phone records. I don’t know if it matters, who it is who you go through. But the letter that Verizon sent back was that they don’t participate in that. They don’t they don’t do that. Yeah, if you? I don’t, I’m not sure the circumstances, I couldn’t really get my attorney to go into it anymore. He just kind of was dismissive about it, but I wasn’t able to prove anything, you know. And when we went back, the judge didn’t care about it didn’t want to hear about it, just, you know,

Michael 52:55
was just the same. Same. So just said, this is a male judge. I don’t know what this particular the death threats and stuff.

Andrew 53:02
Yeah, this was a male justice Tom. He was very dismayed, you know, anything that she said was taken literal, no matter how bizarre it sounded. It was, you know, given utmost respect to the judges, and any defense, I had to, you know, prove my innocence. Based off of anything that was said about me, I had to make sure that I had proof that I wasn’t a child molester. Or, you know, you know, you think how do you prove that? Yeah, but, you know, that’s that’s what you know, that’s what they wanted, they wanted me to to know, I’m not violent that I’m not that my make tons of money that my house is full of food that you know, just everything must be perfect. And even though she was, you know, I had messages that I turned in she said that she was living in her car, that she had nowhere to go her family didn’t want anything to do with her. And then she was just many things, but she she had messaged me one day, this was in 2021 So it’s probably September October this was you know, getting getting to get in close to when I got sole custody, but she, she sends me she sends me messages of my kid in the backseat, you know, terrified crying. And I’m like, You know what is going on? And she said, My mom just just ran into me with my car and is attacking me and I’m like, You know what, like, why are you telling like call the police? Yeah, you wouldn’t respond me answer the phone anymore. I called the police. I called several different police stations and she says that she she basically is I don’t want to run around living in her car and not not letting me see her. She’s in a different town. And, you know, all the police stations that I’m calling are telling me either you’re talking to the wrong people, or why aren’t you doing something about it? Like, they’re, like, attacking me? Like, they’re asking me why I waited so long, you know, to call anybody or my I’ve been calling, you know, for like an hour. I can’t, nobody wants to talk to me. Nobody cares. You know, finally, they’re able to locate her, they talked to her. They called me and they say that, you know, it’s not illegal to live in your car. It looks like she has water in there. And this is this is, you know, it just, I’m just like, I don’t get it. Like, what do you mean? Like, what about the IRA? Oh, she said, there was no car wreck. Nothing happened. She says that sounds like you’re making stuff up, you know? I’m just on tour. You know, I don’t know what to do. I’m losing my mind. And like, I’m really at a breaking point. Yeah. You know, that’s, that’s when, I guess that was I think September October, that I want to monitor this, whatever we got to do, let’s let’s, let’s figure it out with this has to stop. Like, I can’t keep doing this. Actually, I can’t keep doing it. I can’t keep putting myself through this. Like, we got to figure something else out. And, you know, that’s, that’s when they basically push for me, well, we had to go to mediation, you know, that resulted in nothing, that was just a waste of time. But this, like I said, not even not even two months later, I’ve got two new investigations. And she picks her up from daycare and disappears.

Michael 56:57
So that’s the, towards the end of 2021.

Andrew 57:01
Yep, that was that was in October, and then that December, um, October was when the homeless you know, living with kid in the car in December as this one. She just took her out of daycare just picked her up, didn’t let anybody know and disappear.

Michael 57:24
And is that what you did at that point? Then you went to the lawyer and said, Alright, let’s, let’s file for sole. Is that?

Andrew 57:31
Yeah, well, I actually I went and I went and found her myself. Like, I figured out where she was. I mean, because, like, I just I knew I couldn’t just waste another three or $4,000 trying to figure out where she was. Luckily, she was in town. I didn’t have to look river hard. But I got her served immediately. The judge, like really quickly decided that, you know, I needed to focus on emergencies, all custody, they went to her house and took her. And I didn’t really, you know, it, I didn’t really hear anything from her. You know, she eventually got supervised visits. She had a lot of trouble finding anybody that was willing to do the supervision. Um, she actually only did from from January to the final here, and this past October, she only had two visits, like by her choice, like she just wouldn’t show it like I would get my daughter ready. You know, they plan. You know, she does. That’s where she’s supposed to be. She just wouldn’t show up.

Michael 58:44
So firstly, you had to go back a little bit. So you had you filed for Seoul, and you had an emergency hearing at that point was that was in what the beginning of 2021, I think, or

Andrew 58:58
222? Yeah.

Michael 59:00
So this year, very beginning. Was that a new judge again? Or was it a repeat or one of the older judges?

Andrew 59:07
So there’s basically three judges that we kind of cycled through, it was we always had those same three judges.

Michael 59:16
And that on that for that one in particular, which one was that just out of curiosity?

Andrew 59:21
So that was the male judge for 2022. We had the the male judge that was threatening me with jail for for making, fabricating evidence.

Michael 59:33
Interesting. And and but he awarded you temporary sole custody.

Andrew 59:39
Yeah, he did. He did after whenever she picked her up from from daycare. Yeah.

Michael 59:46
And what did what did what was cute just out of curiosity, what did he say about that ruling or what you know, with his decision and like, was there any kind of commentary?

Andrew 59:56
They never go back they never talked about and it And the final hearing that judge was the one that told me that I was using the restraining order as for alienation,

Michael 1:00:09
now it’s the female. Yeah.

Andrew 1:00:13
She did our final hearing.

Michael 1:00:14
Okay. And so so that was in you said recently last month? Yeah, October. Wow. Okay. So from from January, with the sole, temporary sole custody until October, very recent. You had you had temporary sole custody that whole whole time. And she worked pretty hard against you at that point to repeat some of the stuff in the past in terms of Child Protective Services, calls, harassment, any of that kind of stuff, she kept that stuff up. During that time, Reg, he finally back off a little bit,

Andrew 1:00:57
the harassments the the first person harassment stopped, I quit receiving messages from occasionally I’ve received messages from, you know, weird numbers or fake accounts, stuff like that, but I just never responded to them. And they, they they never persisted or carried carried out that, you know, attack I guess, but as far as Child Protective Services, yes, there was in in May, it was it was always the Monday following those two visits she had, she would have a visit that weekend, you know, and then that following Monday, there will be, you know, an investigator at my house, you know, asking questions,

Michael 1:01:43
she got a taste of time. And one more, I guess, essentially, I believe so. Interesting. So, okay, so the final hearing, what what did again, did it was there any kind of commentary? Like, sorry, you’ve been through this or where we got it wrong, or anything of that nature?

Andrew 1:02:03
I never got, you know, I actually, I sit there. As I was sitting on the court, I had high expectations that this judge would say anything, you know, regarding that, but I never, I never got any of that even up into, like I said, up until when we went to court, this last time. As soon as I got on the stand, I had probably been on the stand, you know, my, my attorney had just started, you know, you know, asking questions, and, you know, going into the basics, and, you know, the mom just stood up and decided she was done, walked out of the courtroom. You know, and this was, this was this was after my attorney had called her and several lies on the stand, you know, she would tell a lie, my attorney would, you know, show exactly how that’s a lie. And, you know, basically ask them, Are you going on about it? I’m not happy several times,

Michael 1:03:06
did she have an attorney herself your ex,

Andrew 1:03:09
she over the course of that time, she had six attorneys, and she kept firing them and they they were actually you know, not speaking not speaking good about her and you know, they were telling the judge you know, directly you know, while I’m sitting there listening to it that you know, she has the issue she needs to address with herself before she gets concerned with parenting basically. And you know, that even you know that last year and we had to Gordian lightens that was you know, we had one for the kid supposedly and one just for the mom you know, all of the judge decided that you know, since the mom wasn’t paying anything had no plans to pay anything that it would be my job to financially you know, support all of you know, basically all the court everything all the court calls would fall on me and I would be responsible for getting that money back from her and you know, I guess it’s just part of our here that happened in a lot and that’s my attorney said that off before we even went that you know, you’re gonna you’re gonna flip this whole bill hers and yours

Michael 1:04:33
alright, well that I I always I guess I tried to find a positive as much as possible and and it’s a lot of bullshit that you dealt with. And is it fair? No. But I got a whole fucking heaps of life not being fair examples, right? And should there be some changes? Absolutely. I couldn’t argue that. But you didn’t quit. Yet. You had some moments of doubt and frustration where you did sure all of it right? And maybe there were times when you, you, you took a step back and you you, you rested all say, but you didn’t quit. And ultimately you did persevere. Right. I mean, she, she’s there now. And you You won. And now I want to before I want to so i want to sit with that for a moment and sort of stew in it. Because you did when you know you have sole custody, you’re you’re able to to be with that child, thankfully, luckily. Should it have been this hard? Fuck no, it shouldn’t have been. But But you did win. With that said, then I think that is huge. And I say that because like, I don’t know if you can put a price on. I mean, obviously everyone needs money to live and all that good shit. But I don’t know if he could put a price on winning sole custody. And he did that. I mean, obviously, it would have been better for women it cost so much, obviously. But with that said, and I and obviously that’s why you’re here. Because it in a lot of ways. It is a success story. You got to the end and you got sole custody. You fought harder than then some folks would have for sure, obviously harder than she did, which is a testament to you. And something you will impart to your daughter, I am sure. But is there a part of you that is looking over your shoulder and waiting for more of her bullshit? Or has she do you think this will finally sort of push her to step back and step away?

Andrew 1:07:10
So let me start off first by saying that the amount of money I pay, you know, all those substantial, it was more about keeping my daughter course, out of you know, safety’s unit keeping her safe. She was in danger. I mean, that’s that that was my fear is that she’s in actual danger with this person. And you know that that’s what made it worth it for me to know that. Possibly I might be able to keep her away from that. Yeah. Um, as far as looking over my shoulder That’s never stopped when I sometimes when I’m going outside, like, like, hurry up and get my car and lock the doors. And I’m like looking around. Sometimes when I pull up my driveway, I’m looking around still to this day, because of the stuff that she has done. And I’ve you know, witness myself. I’ve had people you know, call me and tell me hey, look, this this woman just offered me $200 to come find you and beat you up or hey, look, this woman is or my neighbor recently just told me that she was trying to get her to you know, make up laws about me. You know that she was actually just arrested three days ago for trying to break into my mom’s house that she does Airbnb it and she told the cops and you know, everybody that that my mom was supposed to be meeting her there to meet her kids. So she was I don’t know what her purpose of doing that was but you know, I don’t feel like it’s ever gonna stop

Michael 1:08:55
is there any is there any possibility and I don’t know that or he had I’m sure he thought of it because you probably almost constantly trying to figure out ways to get out of this. Have you ever thought about moving somewhere or not? Because at this point you don’t I mean obviously you don’t want to move far from your family but I mean even you know within the town or whatever I’m sure she would be able to find you but because at this point you she has no visitation or anything right there’s nothing your soul and so is Is there is there any is there ever a thought I mean obviously a Aruba would be nice or something of that nature but V ever considered just just within the town or close by where you would just hopefully be able to get some peace of mind and go somewhere where she doesn’t know where you are.

Andrew 1:09:42
Absolutely, yeah, I’ve always I’ve always wanted to take my daughter somewhere. You know, I’ve always honestly wanted to move to the West Coast. I’m on the East Coast and I always wanted to something has always happened. Some of that’s always stopped me. So yeah, Absolutely, like I said, this just we just come to an agreement in October, you know, I had honestly, I had no idea which way was gonna go. Because whenever we went to court, you know, right, right before we’re about to walk in, my attorney is obviously looking at, you know, he’s looking at me real nervous and whatnot and, and telling me, man, I’m kind of I’m kind of nervous. And this is what he tells me as we were about to walk into court. I’m kind of nervous because I just lost the cast a case yesterday, and the mom was worse than this one. Yeah, in the city last, and I’m just like, You know what I mean, the whole time I went through this, you know, like, I never knew what was gonna happen, because the judges would always say something that just caught me way off guard. It just didn’t make sense to me, every single time. And this last time, this this last year, and after she walked out, they actually got somebody to go out, you know, the bailiff to go out and call to see if she was still there. So she could come back in if she wanted to. After we’re done, you know, my attorneys like judge just I need to, you know, put this out there that my her his his office was literally right across the street from from the courthouse. And the mom is walking up into like Payson, in front of his office waiting on us to get out. And, you know, the judges, you know, looking terrified, and oh, my goodness, yeah, y’all y’all need somebody to escort out is the escort you guys out? You know, and I, you know, I personally asked, you know, if I could get some kind of restraining order or something, because this woman stalked me harasses me, you know, all of these things, but, you know, just even with her patient in front of the courthouse after she walked out, stormed out, man, still nothing, you know, as

Michael 1:11:57
well. So, I’m gonna ask you to the obviously the last question, I’m going to ask you, but I want to I want to ask you another one before that, because because of your circumstances, what you went through what words of wisdom would you give to a man who was trying to get more custody period? Whether that be 5050? Or maybe soul? What? What advice do you give to that

Andrew 1:12:20
man? I think one of the hardest hidden things that and it’s not good, I don’t think but one of the hardest hidden things that my attorney told me and this was actually the beginning of 2021 or the middle of something that whenever the allegations sort of flooding in he told me that he loved his kids a lot, but he wouldn’t lose his freedom for his children. And he went on to explain that eventually what was going to happen to me was that she’s going to find somebody that was willing to hold charges above my head so that I would have you know, a pending you know, child molestation case against me that, that that was the hardest thing for me to deal with. A I don’t you just have to be so strong to do I mean, you have to be willing to I don’t I don’t know have is tough. Like to be able to say that. I’m willing to give up my freedom for my child for something so ridiculous. You just have to hold on, you just have to keep doing what’s right. I don’t know. I had to be the best me I could every day. I could persevere.

Michael 1:13:52
Did you have? Sounds like you said earlier? You had a support system? How much did that help? And how much did you lean on on that during this process?

Andrew 1:14:05
Heavily? If I’m I’m an extrovert, so I have to talk to people I love communicating. And, you know, if I if I didn’t have people surrounding me all the time, there’s no way I could have done it. There’s no because there were still some days I couldn’t get out of bed. It was hard for me to, you know, to make myself eat. If I didn’t have those people around me all the time. I don’t think I would have been able to do it. Honestly, if I was in a towel by myself. I mean, that’s probably one of my fears of moving. Is that you know, I would have to build a new support system

Michael 1:14:45
I gotta, I gotta say I’m gonna say this before we end up prostate again, man. I think you’re a fucking hero. And I don’t I don’t think people should throw that word around. To that little girl. You’re a hero to me. You’re a hero. Your Your strength is. I mean? Yeah, it’s it’s pretty fucking awesome man. I think I’m happy to get this story out there because yeah, there’s lots of shit in here and unfairness and bullshit, but you persevered and and the effect that’s gonna have on your daughter is it’s I don’t think it’s too grandiose to say it’s world changing because it’s going to extrapolate out like her she’s going to be a better person and a healthier person and I’m assuming she’s gonna have struggles as we all do she’s gonna have struggles and dealing with this stuff and but seem to me the kind of guy who will get her the help that she needs when she has these troubles. Not that she’s going to end up like her mother or anything like that. I’m not saying that I’m just saying it’s just the struggles of dealing with with this type of a situation. As a child, they always manifest. But because you’re there, and and because you have sole custody, you’re going to be able to help her through this process. And so without you doing this without you fighting, who knows? The future? I mean, obviously, it’s unknown now anyway, but she’s gonna be a better person and have a better life for it. There’s no question and that’s going to touch other people’s lives. So again, my friend, you’re a fucking hero. Don’t ever doubt that. And so with that no pressure. What are what are some words of wisdom you would impart to a man who just starting his divorce process, whether that be someone going through custody shit, or just just a regular old shitty as divorce?

Andrew 1:16:41
Well, there’s no, there’s no avoiding, you know, the hurt and the hardships that you got to deal with. I do think that, you know, I’ve got to do, you know, whatever my best is every day, you know, I try to be better every day. But to keep going, even when it does get hard, is most certainly, from from, you know, for me, the most difficult thing about all of this is to, you know, even when I want to fall apart to still go to court that day, you know, that was something that I learned through this process. That’s something that you know, really, and I’m really holding on to still is, you know, because it was easy before I had kids or, you know, before had responsibilities to call out of work. And, you know, that was it, but I don’t know, just keep pushing, you just gotta keep going. If that’s what you really want, you’ll keep going.

Michael 1:17:46
Well, Andrew, I thank you, honestly, for doing this, for getting this story out there. I definitely want to stay in touch, I want to I want to keep making sure that making sure but I want to stay informed for sure. I want you to reach out. You know if if things get shitty again, or whatever, just I just I feel compelled to stay in touch with you and and keep getting inspired, I guess in some ways. It’s, yeah, I just I’m at a loss for words, just because I think a lesser person would have I know a lesser person would have, I don’t even know if I would have I think I would have been, they would have walked the fuck away a long time ago. But man, you didn’t give up. And that’s, again, world changing because it’s not only going to change your daughter’s life, but it’s going to change someone else’s life to that she is going to touch and revel in that my friend, take take a few moments today. Certainly go and hug and kiss that little girl and give her the love that you’ve fought to get her. Man. So fucking inspiring, man. Thank you. Thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it.

Andrew 1:19:04
Man, I really appreciate you you’re doing yourself. You’re doing you know, life changing stuff for people. And I really appreciate you know how well I see you know how long you’ve been doing this man. Just Just keep at it. It’s gonna pay off. Howard, I appreciate you know, you’ve been there for us too.

Michael 1:19:20
You’re welcome. I appreciate that. Listen. Yeah, well, thank you. I appreciate it. You know, I don’t like you doing doing my best. I think doing what I feel compelled to do. It’s not always easy. For sure. And but moments like this certainly make it all worthwhile. I thank you for that. Thank you very much. Thanks, man. Yep, take care.

Episode 92 – Real Men Real Stories Series – Andrew – He Filed – Has Children

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